Birkdale - Broadband Blackspot

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#1240526 17-Feb-2015 08:21

noroad: One other note, if you are close to one of the CallPlus unbundled exchanges, on net VSDL is being worked on (VDSL to the MSAN over UCLL). So some people who have have had no VDSL option my be able to use this once its rolled out. No promises on time frame or availability, but its not far away.

I'd pick the number of people who could benefit from this would be fairly minimal though, the goal of such a deployment would surely be to just save costs for CallPlus since they could move wholesale customers back to UCLL connections.

Typically speaking most exchanges have around a 2km radius before cabinets kick in which leaves pockets of people beyond the ~1km range with no VDSL2. As the average MPF length from a cabinet is sub 1km the vast majority of cabinetised users around the country can get VDSL2.

The Chorus 997/998 migration may see some benefit to end users, but neither UCLL VDSL2 or the bandplan change will result in a sudden influx of new VDSL2 capable customers.

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#1240527 17-Feb-2015 08:27

sbiddle:
The Chorus 997/998 migration may see some benefit to end users, but neither UCLL VDSL2 or the bandplan change will result in a sudden influx of new VDSL2 capable customers.

Do we know when this is happening?

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#1240528 17-Feb-2015 08:30

I'm just glad there are companies like Callplus that are thinking outside the box for people like myself who are willing to pay a premium for the service.

beaglenz

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#1240533 17-Feb-2015 08:34

What is the 997/998 migration?

sbiddle

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#1240550 17-Feb-2015 08:56

beaglenz: I'm just glad there are companies like Callplus that are thinking outside the box for people like myself who are willing to pay a premium for the service.

In what way? It's not going to make any difference at all to the service(s) you can get at hour house. Even if you're connected to the exchange you're still too far away from the exchange to get usable VDSL2 unless they start looking at very aggressive low bandwidth profiles which I'd highly doubt will offer a stable service.

As I said the reason for UCLL providers offering VDSL2 is nothing to do with extending coverage, it's purely about moving wholesale VDSL2 customers back to UCLL kit so save them money.

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#1240553 17-Feb-2015 09:00

beaglenz: What is the 997/998 migration?

Chorus are migrating from the 997 to 998 bandplan for VDSL2.

This is for various reasons - 998 has become the defacto world standard for VDSL2 (remember NZ was an early adopter of VDSL2 and 997 was common then) and many types of hardware no longer support 997.

998 will probably result in small increases in coverage as it can handle slightly increased attenuation better, and because of the makeup of the 998 profiles it will offer slightly better download speeds, and allow Chorus to remove the 10Mbps upstream limit.

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beaglenz

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#1240557 17-Feb-2015 09:10

If it wasnt for the other ISPs Chorus wouldnt have even bothered with VDSL, we need them to be pushing the telcos to innovate.

sbiddle

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#1240587 17-Feb-2015 09:57

beaglenz: If it wasnt for the other ISPs Chorus wouldnt have even bothered with VDSL, we need them to be pushing the telcos to innovate.

Wow.

Such a completely and utterly untrue statement. I can't believe anybody could believe such a thing.

The whole point of the Telecom cabinetisation project was to deliver 10Mbps+ to 85ish % of premises in NZ and the reason cabinet footprints were cut down to ensure roughly 1km MPF length was so that that close to 100% of MPFs off a cabinet would get VDSL2.

Other ISPs out their fought AGAINST cabinetisation because it messed with their plans for UCLL.

noroad

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#1240589 17-Feb-2015 09:59

Actually this is not true, generally Chorus only VDSL enables cabinets, so if you are exchange fed you are like the OP and only able to get ADSL. UCLL VDSL will only benefit some customers who are close to exchanges, but now they have no option available to them so something is better than nothing eh.

>As I said the reason for UCLL providers offering VDSL2 is nothing to do with extending coverage, it's purely about moving wholesale VDSL2 customers back to UCLL >kit so save them money.

sbiddle

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#1240597 17-Feb-2015 10:07

noroad: Actually this is not true, generally Chorus only VDSL enables cabinets, so if you are exchange fed you are like the OP and only able to get ADSL.

Totally untrue.

If an exchange has an ISAM it will offer both ADSL2+ and VDSL2 services.

Situations like the one you mention can exist where an exchange is still a fibre fed ASAM delivering ADSL1 but cabinets fed from the exchange have ADSL2+ and VDSL2. This type of situation can exist in rural areas, not urban.

The situation with Birkdale is just as I described above, which is fairly typical for most urban exchanges -

*VDSL2 delivered from the exchange but ~2km MPF length from the exchange before cabinets take over. This delivers VDSL2 to roughly 50% of exchange customers out to ~1km.

*VDSL2 delivered from the 11 cabinets off the BKL exchange delivering VDSL2 to pretty much 100% of MPFs served by these cabinets which will all typically be sub 1km MPF lengths.

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#1240769 17-Feb-2015 12:28

Thanks for chipping in #sbiddle but all of the advocating for Chorus still doesn't get me faster internet. I look at it like this, I live in the largest city in the country, fairly well connected internationally, big company celebrates and has a huge promotion for a "GigaTown" and I still can't get internet broadband that by recent definitions in the US is no longer classed as broadband.

Don't tell me it is about pure economics either. I have a friend out in Coatesville who can get VDSL2 and there is no way they can get as many subscribers on that exchange as there are about 10 households along a 2km stretch of road. So why can't I get VDSL2 here in Birkdale? I know the technical reason so don't bother responding - the reason is that they are not interested in getting subscribers using copper based technologies as it might discourage a shift to fibre when it it rolled out.

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#1240773 17-Feb-2015 12:35

You are looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one.

Why would they invest massive amounts to put in more cabinets to deliver VDSL2 to an area that already has ADSL and will be getting fibre in 2-3 years?

It sucks for you yes - but I doubt there is someone there laughing maniacally and deliberately preventing you from getting VDSL2 to increase fibre uptake.

It is cost/benefit for them - and sometimes that doesn't work out for the consumer.

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#1240786 17-Feb-2015 12:42

It's nothing so complicated. There's a a program to build fibre, that's the priority and it's sucking up the resources. When it comes past your door you'll have a choice of ADSL over copper or fibre. It doesn't make economic sense for Chorus to invest hundreds of thousands now in upgrading copper for a few dozen Birkdale residents who may spend $10 a month more on VDSL for two years.

beaglenz: Thanks for chipping in #sbiddle but all of the advocating for Chorus still doesn't get me faster internet. I look at it like this, I live in the largest city in the
country, fairly well connected internationally, big company celebrates and has a huge promotion for a "GigaTown" and I still can't get internet broadband that by recent definitions in the US is no longer classed as broadband.

Don't tell me it is about pure economics either. I have a friend out in Coatesville who can get VDSL2 and there is no way they can get as many subscribers on that exchange as there are about 10 households along a 2km stretch of road. So why can't I get VDSL2 here in Birkdale? I know the technical reason so don't bother responding - the reason is that they are not interested in getting subscribers using copper based technologies as it might discourage a shift to fibre when it it rolled out.

Bill Bennett www.billbennett.co.nz @billbennettnz

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#1240787 17-Feb-2015 12:43

wasabi2k: You are looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one.

Why would they invest massive amounts to put in more cabinets to deliver VDSL2 to an area that already has ADSL and will be getting fibre in 2-3 years?

It sucks for you yes - but I doubt there is someone there laughing maniacally and deliberately preventing you from getting VDSL2 to increase fibre uptake.

It is cost/benefit for them - and sometimes that doesn't work out for the consumer.

Very few *conspiracies* are actually conspiracies. Mostly this is just about juggling resources to get the best overall result.

Bill Bennett www.billbennett.co.nz @billbennettnz

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#1240792 17-Feb-2015 12:45

Your assertion makes no economic sense. Chorus couldn't care less* about fibre uptake, when your alternative is buying ADSL from them at roughly the same price. The difference here is that UFB is government funded and mandated, them building out new cabinets to provide VDSL2 to the few in the "gap" between exchange and cabinet is not, so it has to stack up, and does not for reasons already outlined.

Furthermore - if they DID build new, closer cabinets, it would screw over all the ISPs who have made significant investment in LLU.

*I'm sure they do care on some level, but it probably makes little difference to them in the short term, economically.

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