What happens to the phone & internet services during a power cut?

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cisconz

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#509617 21-Aug-2011 15:10

raytaylor: I like what verizon uses for their Fios installs in the USA
Its an ONT + voip ata all in the one unit.

That looks like a 4 port ATA to me, or am I missing where the O in ONT comes into this unit.

Hmmmm

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#509619 21-Aug-2011 15:14

raytaylor: I like what verizon uses for their Fios installs in the USA

Its an ONT + voip ata all in the one unit.

Jeebus thats a terrible job on the ethernet cable crimp

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#509636 21-Aug-2011 16:40

Yes it is

Here is another pic
These pics are just from wikipedia

I assume the battery is inside because its quite a big metal enclosure

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Lorenceo

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#510212 22-Aug-2011 23:11

Incorrect. For FiOS the battery is inside the PSU, which is installed inside the house next to a mains outlet. They're just 12v alarm batteries, from the looks of it.

You can see some pictures of an NBN setup in Tasmania here: http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/skylinebob/NBN%20Tas%20Midway%20Point/

The unit Bob got given has the same outputs as the Verizon FiOS ones pictured earlier, but it's just an indoor unit.
The PSU can have a battery installed in it, the units in the US come with them by default. IIRC Bob's unit didn't, and he opted not to get one or have the PSU and ONT attached to the wall permanently.

Glee

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#512472 26-Aug-2011 13:35

The draft Wholesale Services Agreement (that UFB retail providers are being asked to sign) contains this provision at 9.3:

Service continuity : The Service Provider will, and will ensure that each Reseller will, offer battery back-up to each End User (at the End User’s cost) to ensure that the End User can continue to access services provided to them by the Service Provider in the event of a power failure. The Service Provider will, and will ensure that each Reseller will, make reasonable efforts to ensure that each End User understands the importance of battery back-up.

http://www.crownfibre.govt.nz/media/14208/wholesale_services_agreement_general_terms%20v3%201%20dated%201%20july%202011.pdf

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#512482 26-Aug-2011 13:45

Glee: The draft Wholesale Services Agreement (that UFB retail providers are being asked to sign) contains this provision at 9.3:

Service continuity : The Service Provider will, and will ensure that each Reseller will, offer battery back-up to each End User (at the End User’s cost) to ensure that the End User can continue to access services provided to them by the Service Provider in the event of a power failure. The Service Provider will, and will ensure that each Reseller will, make reasonable efforts to ensure that each End User understands the importance of battery back-up.

http://www.crownfibre.govt.nz/media/14208/wholesale_services_agreement_general_terms%20v3%201%20dated%201%20july%202011.pdf

So it will be your choice whether or not you pay for this. Seems reasonable but also a step back from where we are today.

FaleVaa

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#516465 4-Sep-2011 15:27

Interesting UPS power solution at the Chorus FTTH Auckland home show today.

Some sort of PC power supply with external battery and labelled ALARM ??

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/blogde7180a1905e1f4450920ba8bdd6d769.jpg

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#516466 4-Sep-2011 15:30

Thats the AlarmNZ power supply and Alarm unit powering the new Telecom ONT and a WxC Router, these are one of the options I believe being looked at.

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webwat

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#517111 5-Sep-2011 20:28

sbiddle: On one hand we have the government extremely unhappy with mobile providers when the briefest of outages has the potential to impact on 111 availability, while there are already fibre installs with no backup option for phones... It really doesn't make sence.

Especially since the early GPON installs didn't seem to involve feedback from end users very much. I dealt with one of the first users maybe 4 years ago who didn't even know their new house was connected to fibre after they had already moved in. Telecom Wholesale said there was a single POTS line along with the fibre so maybe that contributed to the confusion, but really -- who is going to be deciding on battery backups? Not likely to be the tenant or flatmate who eventually tries to make an emergency call... Don't like the chances of convincing the bodycorp here to pay for it!

rhy7s: With solar dropping in price all the time though hopefully small scale generation will make future networks more robust and keep the light flowing.

Good point, assuming solar panel specs would be matched to the load of running an ONT on backup power.

wired: I also wonder how many people will bother to maintain a UPS if they did have one. I doubt that people regularly change the batteries in their burglar alarms.

And if the UPS looks easy to plug things into, some people will be very tempted to plug in other equipment like their POE switch or whatever that use more power and run the batteries flat faster during an outage. I think battery solutions have to be integrated with the telco gear so that power loads and batteries can be monitored automatically.

wired: Look forward to the LFC or Chorus being more proactive if they offer it.

Maybe it should be an enforcable standard monitored by a third party or require notifications being sent to the end user -- or ISP contracts could include monthly exception reports on battery performance.

raytaylor: I like what verizon uses for their Fios installs in the USA Its an ONT + voip ata all in the one unit.

Some ONTs fit over the fibre termination, so the connector is patched safely behind the unit where nobody can burn their eyes out from curiosity? I thought so anyway.

codyc1515: So it will be your choice whether or not you pay for this. Seems reasonable but also a step back from where we are today.

Yes it is certainly a step backward to get a more reliable medium without a reliable power supply to light it up. We seem to be at a crossroads where different people value different types of communication as the most critical. I think POTS should remain the last resort so ONT still needs dedicated power, but internet has replaced traditional advice to turn on the radio in a disaster (who has a battery radio anymore?). Perhaps the future will see many houses having enough solar to charge a mobile or run a VoIP device for example, without permanently impacting runtime of the gateway.

Time to find a new industry!

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#517126 5-Sep-2011 20:54

Whoa slow down everyone,

First off none of the LFC have even settled down to choosing which ONT/OLT they will be going with for the production network, The classic FTTH style we've seen in NZ of ONT + Seperate ATA which is fast looking like it wont be the UFB deployment method, ONT's with integrated routers and wifi are an option along with basic models that include ATA port's.

Alarm's aren't even worth talking about, They have had and should always have their own separate battery and mains connection, I dont think any ISP is going to be looking forward getting a call from an insurance company asking for $$$ after a UPS maintained by them fails.

Now, Unless ONT's and ATA's drop in power consumption majorly those dinky little 12v ~6ah cells are going to give you runtime of around 6 hours best case but you'll damage the battery doing that and that assumes the battery isn't 5 days away from being replaced. These kinds of power cuts tend to be isolated something vs power pole incidents (Atleast they are up north) which is going to bring down aerial POTS anyway so it's a bit moot. Multi-day outages like AKL `98 are rare.

POTS is not infallible, There were reports of VOIP lines being up before POTS lines in CHCH. VOIP under the UFB is a different beast to the VOIP most of us use.

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

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Lorenceo

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#517219 5-Sep-2011 23:27

That picture above with the alarm + backup battery appears to show an ONT with POTS ports on it, similar to those used in the US and in Australia.
Why don't service providers provision VOIP to these ports, instead of requiring customers to purchase a router/ATA?
Would make things easier for those who don't want/need internet (the number of which will no doubt be decreasing all the time), but could be forced into it when the POTS network is decommissioned?

sbiddle

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#517249 6-Sep-2011 06:01

It's fairly safe to assume that the ONT provided by Telecom will be an ALU one, as this fits in with their technology solution. It's also expected in most of the UFB documentation that the onboard ATA will be used for voice, however the installation of an external router is still expected. As to whether ISP's when opt to build their own provisioning platforms for the ONT's ATA or use the ATA in a RGW that they may choose to deploy is up to them.

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#517250 6-Sep-2011 06:06

Nope we won't, no way to separate our provisioning details from anyone else and no way would we want our details being open to anyone , also the SIP interop for the platforms is a issue which CFH seem to have ignored,

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Beccara

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#517276 6-Sep-2011 08:40

As maverick said, Provisioning is next to impossible, Diagnostics is more difficult and compatibility is an issue. I wouldn't be so sure Chorus will go with ALU, Ericison is spending alot of time with all the LFC's at this point and NorthPower are looking at offering both options to RSP of a integrated ONT/ATA and a ONT + external ATA like spa pap2t/2102

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#518178 7-Sep-2011 16:44

maverick: Nope we won't, no way to separate our provisioning details from anyone else and no way would we want our details being open to anyone , also the SIP interop for the platforms is a issue which CFH seem to have ignored,

Perhaps Chorus et al would look at providing a SIP proxy or some other way of routing the onboard ATA logins to the service provider, which would at least give you options for failover of POTS when the lights go out.

Time to find a new industry!

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