Birkdale - Broadband Blackspot

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#1240794 17-Feb-2015 12:52

I didn't say it was a conspiracy guys but you talk like this issue has just landed. People like your dear selves have been providing excuses rather than solutions for years. Just check back on these very forums, I was a good boy and searched the forums before posting. I didn't just happen on this problem, this has been going on a long time and some people are going to be waiting a lot longer.

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#1240796 17-Feb-2015 12:55

You are correct, it is not a new problem, and as someone in the same boat, it is annoying.

UFB should have started sooner, should have been faster, should have had more coverage, and all sorts of other should haves/would haves/could haves.

But that's life sometimes :) Gotta roll with the punches.

billbennett

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#1240810 17-Feb-2015 13:06

beaglenz: I didn't say it was a conspiracy guys but you talk like this issue has just landed. People like your dear selves have been providing excuses rather than solutions for years. Just check back on these very forums, I was a good boy and searched the forums before posting. I didn't just happen on this problem, this has been going on a long time and some people are going to be waiting a lot longer.

You're right to ask questions and they are the right questions. If we all sat back and just accepted what we were given it would be a sad, second-rate world.

My gripe is that there are houses 50m in one direction and 150m in the other with UFB (and I bet they haven't connected yet) while there are at least a few houses in the middle of our road who would sign up tomorrow. Instead I have to wait two years. It might have made sense to contact the locals down here and ask who wants UFB before drawing up those boundaries.

We can speculate on how things might have worked out if Vector won the Auckland UFB contract. While we'd probably still be waiting for fibre, Chorus would have an incentive to make sure everyone had a first rate copper broadband experience.

Bill Bennett www.billbennett.co.nz @billbennettnz

beaglenz

95 posts

Master Geek
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#1240837 17-Feb-2015 13:42

Exactly, Vector have a fibre cable that runs past both ends of Salusbury Road, ISPs should be able to use this for UFB

kiwikiwi

455 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1240843 17-Feb-2015 13:51

sbiddle:
beaglenz: What is the 997/998 migration?

Chorus are migrating from the 997 to 998 bandplan for VDSL2.

This is for various reasons - 998 has become the defacto world standard for VDSL2 (remember NZ was an early adopter of VDSL2 and 997 was common then) and many types of hardware no longer support 997.

998 will probably result in small increases in coverage as it can handle slightly increased attenuation better, and because of the makeup of the 998 profiles it will offer slightly better download speeds, and allow Chorus to remove the 10Mbps upstream limit.

Sbiddle you're making me regret leaving the country side now when I had my 65/10 VDSL. The modem could easily sync up to 70/45 if that 10mbps limit was removed and the 998 bandplan was implimented. That close to the cabinet supplying the VDSL2. It was also cheaper at the time too!

You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

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Andib

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#1240844 17-Feb-2015 13:51

Your best option is to lobby to your MP to allow chorus to charge more for rural DSL connections, Maybe then they might be motivated to upgrade equipment with a much lower ROI than it's urban equivlent

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johnr

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#1240845 17-Feb-2015 13:53

beaglenz: Exactly, Vector have a fibre cable that runs past both ends of Salusbury Road, ISPs should be able to use this for UFB

How do you know this even carries internet traffic? It could be a backbone fibre

kiwikiwi

455 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1240846 17-Feb-2015 13:56

johnr:
beaglenz: Exactly, Vector have a fibre cable that runs past both ends of Salusbury Road, ISPs should be able to use this for UFB

How do you know this even carries internet traffic? It could be a backbone fibre

Plus one to this.

I don't think Vector would take too kindly if you started having a go at their backbone fibre. Especially since it's for the actual exchanges/cabinets/towers around the area. I really really think that Vector would just tell you no.

You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

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sbiddle

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#1240860 17-Feb-2015 14:15

beaglenz: Thanks for chipping in #sbiddle but all of the advocating for Chorus still doesn't get me faster internet. I look at it like this, I live in the largest city in the country, fairly well connected internationally, big company celebrates and has a huge promotion for a "GigaTown" and I still can't get internet broadband that by recent definitions in the US is no longer classed as broadband.

Don't tell me it is about pure economics either. I have a friend out in Coatesville who can get VDSL2 and there is no way they can get as many subscribers on that exchange as there are about 10 households along a 2km stretch of road. So why can't I get VDSL2 here in Birkdale? I know the technical reason so don't bother responding - the reason is that they are not interested in getting subscribers using copper based technologies as it might discourage a shift to fibre when it it rolled out.

I've not advocating for Chorus. I'm simply stating facts. In your case you have two choices - move houses or wait for UFB.

Location means very little - somebody in Coatsville over 1km from that cabinet will be in exactly the same situation as you and won't have access to UFB either.

Like everything in this world we can't always have what we want. There is no conspiracy theory as Chorus to be totally honest don't care about fibre uptake. Their role is to build the network.

When cabinetisation was planned in 2005-2006 the goal of having 10+ Mbps to 85% of premises was very ambitious. It's lucky for the country that the network designers at the time took VDSL2 into account as it has delivered a great network. VDSL2 is great but can't overcome the laws of physics, and building out the network to deliver VDSL2 to 100% of ISAM connected MPF's would have basically doubled the cost of the network. Meanwhile you can look at Australia where they've lost their fibre network and can now look forward to VDSL2 by ~2018.

beaglenz

95 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15

#1240862 17-Feb-2015 14:17

kiwikiwi:
johnr:
beaglenz: Exactly, Vector have a fibre cable that runs past both ends of Salusbury Road, ISPs should be able to use this for UFB

How do you know this even carries internet traffic? It could be a backbone fibre

Plus one to this.

I don't think Vector would take too kindly if you started having a go at their backbone fibre. Especially since it's for the actual exchanges/cabinets/towers around the area. I really really think that Vector would just tell you no.

'cause I asked is the answer. Boy you guys need to take a lesson in appreciative inquiry, maybe that should be part of the forum rules :-) This cable serves the four or five schools on Birkdale Road. Also, they told me it would cost me $16,000 to connect my house. Short of digging up the cables myself I think I have just about asked every question, thank goodness for guys like #noroad who has given me some other options.

beaglenz

95 posts

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#1240864 17-Feb-2015 14:19

sbiddle:
beaglenz: Thanks for chipping in #sbiddle but all of the advocating for Chorus still doesn't get me faster internet. I look at it like this, I live in the largest city in the country, fairly well connected internationally, big company celebrates and has a huge promotion for a "GigaTown" and I still can't get internet broadband that by recent definitions in the US is no longer classed as broadband.

Don't tell me it is about pure economics either. I have a friend out in Coatesville who can get VDSL2 and there is no way they can get as many subscribers on that exchange as there are about 10 households along a 2km stretch of road. So why can't I get VDSL2 here in Birkdale? I know the technical reason so don't bother responding - the reason is that they are not interested in getting subscribers using copper based technologies as it might discourage a shift to fibre when it it rolled out.

I've not advocating for Chorus. I'm simply stating facts. In your case you have two choices - move houses or wait for UFB.

Location means very little - somebody in Coatsville over 1km from that cabinet will be in exactly the same situation as you and won't have access to UFB either.

Like everything in this world we can't always have what we want. There is no conspiracy theory as Chorus to be totally honest don't care about fibre uptake. Their role is to build the network.

When cabinetisation was planned in 2005-2006 the goal of having 10+ Mbps to 85% of premises was very ambitious. It's lucky for the country that the network designers at the time took VDSL2 into account as it has delivered a great network. VDSL2 is great but can't overcome the laws of physics, and building out the network to deliver VDSL2 to 100% of ISAM connected MPF's would have basically doubled the cost of the network. Meanwhile you can look at Australia where they've lost their fibre network and can now look forward to VDSL2 by ~2018.

And thanks again, I am none the better for your input.

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noroad

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#1240865 17-Feb-2015 14:23

Well, as someone who worked intimately on the Vector bid I know that fiber well. Vector would have used that fiber as a GPON feeder had they won the bid. The Vector fiber is actually an air blown duct that is partially populated right now as needs dictate, but would have had the appropriate GPON feeder fiber added very quickly. This would have then fed into new air blown ducts down each street and the aerial power feeds into the houses (mine included) would have been replaced by dual power/fiber feeds. Most of this would have been largely complete by now. It still amazes me how many years Chorus has pushed this build out to, in difficult places there might be some justification, but in places it is so easy (as stated I know exactly whats involved, so don't tell me how hard it is) the only excuse is purely economic capital expenditure spreading (and trying to squeeze the government/commerce commission to get a better deal). Yes under grounding is nice, but when there is already a power cable there (and no plan to remove it) then its just a waste of money that could be used somewhere else.

>I don't think Vector would take too kindly if you started having a go at their backbone fibre. Especially since it's for the actual exchanges/cabinets/towers around the area. I really really think that Vector would just tell you no.

Jase2985

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#1240866 17-Feb-2015 14:23

no your not, but its addressed your misinformed ideas on a few things

toejam316

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#1240868 17-Feb-2015 14:28

The reality is that it was not (and is not) economically viable to do a cabinet build out that close to an exchange, as customers within 2km of the exchange can expect 10mbps+ on an ADSL2+ profile.

Customers outside of that are on cabinets to achieve the 10mbps+ level of service, and cabinet density allowed an easy upgrade to VDSL2+ cards. I'm sure that if you can make a viable business case to your LFC or Chorus and get a contract drummed up to make them some money, they'll readily come to the table regarding an upgrade to your services.

If you are unable to put your money where your mouth is though, I think that their interest in you will be about equivalent to the interest you've shown so far in the info you've been offered.

Join Quic Broadband with my referral - no sign up fee and gives me account credit

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

beaglenz

95 posts

Master Geek
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#1240876 17-Feb-2015 14:39

Jase2985: no your not, but its addressed your misinformed ideas on a few things

If you say so

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