Research into piracy in NZ

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Research into piracy in NZ

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

122 posts

Master Geek

#2188348 27-Feb-2019 18:35

networkn:

aspett:

Look, I get where you're coming from, but,

We live in a global market, and companies need to do better at providing their services globally. If they don't want our money, then perhaps they should not complain when they don't get our money?

So what if we live in a Global Market? This doesn't mean everything is available everywhere automatically.

If I don't provide my services to someone in Turkey, I don't expect them to steal those services from me. It's my service and I may not have the time and ability to service customers that far away.

There's a distinction to be made within services.. specifically multimedia services. Sure, you can opt to not specifically provide a Turkey-localised service, but it's another thing to deliberately lock out Turkey as a region, and you bet your butt they'll be consuming that media either way, too. I am taking a realistic view of the system. What we have now doesn't work for providers or consumers, so we should work to improve it. I loathe that you reduce your argument to entitlement, and ultimately if you continue that, this will devolve to a generational argument.

Are the rights holders complaining they don't get your money? I doubt it. This doesn't mean you have any right to take what belongs to them for free.

Well, we implemented a 3 strikes system because of all the complaining they were doing - though they now seem to have backed off since it'll cost them money to pursue money that isn't worth it.

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#2188386 27-Feb-2019 18:37

aspett:

networkn:

aspett:

It doesn't come down to money when the content is not delivered regardless of how much money someone is willing to pay.

I am 100% certain if you offer them $1,00,000 a month to deliver the service to you, they will happily oblige. What specific content are you not being "allowed" to legally see? Have you contacted the rights holders to let them know your interest?

Like in most things, the volume we do in NZ of anything is TINY. Setting up in a new region isn't insignificant, no matter what you might think. Say 1000 people subscribe to the service you are saying you can't get, or 2000, and they are prepared to pay $20 a month, the baseline cost of getting that service here is going to be so overwhelmingly huge, they just won't even consider it.

BTW, it's not your God given right to see and access whatever content you want. The content rights holders decide who gets to see it, you could always move to a country that they do provide rights to it.

Look, I get where you're coming from, but,

We live in a global market, and companies need to do better at providing their services globally. If they don't want our money, then perhaps they should not complain when they don't get our money?

You assume that the delivery of goods and services in a global market is costless. Its not. As stated before, what specific content are you not being "allowed" to legally see?

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2188387 27-Feb-2019 18:38

MikeB4:

I didn't need to stop pirating as I never started in the first place. I believe that creators are entitled to payment be it music, film, software or cars.

Not really talking about the creators here at all. Nobody begrudges the creators fair share, but they are only receiving a very small part of it when it could be larger. We have way to many companies clicking the ticket without adding value.

The Netflex type model is the future and the dinosaurs like Sky will die screaming about trying to control the internet.

gbwelly

1243 posts

Uber Geek

#2188391 27-Feb-2019 18:43

I'm sure there are at least 2 other mega threads exactly the same as this one :)

Maybe Peter Reader needs to do a 'Here we go...' when it sees the words 'Sky' with a capital letter.

networkn

Networkn
32351 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188393 27-Feb-2019 18:46

aspett:

There's a distinction to be made within services.. specifically multimedia services. Sure, you can opt to not specifically provide a Turkey-localised service, but it's another thing to deliberately lock out Turkey as a region, and you bet your butt they'll be consuming that media either way, too. I am taking a realistic view of the system. What we have now doesn't work for providers or consumers, so we should work to improve it. I loathe that you reduce your argument to entitlement, and ultimately if you continue that, this will devolve to a generational argument.

My services are digital, and I hold the rights to them. I can choose to sell to whomever I wish as can the provider/rights holder of your other example. There is no obligation for them to provide to anyone they don't want to, especially if that would result in a financial loss.

You haven't mentioned the content you would like access to, which would give some context, but do you have some evidence that not supplying NZ with the content you want, is in some way "not working" for them? Presumably, if it were straight forward *and* profitable, it would be being done already. Maybe there is more to this than you have considered? I agree this appears to not be working for you, but I don't think it's relevant.

It's pitched as an entitlement issue because you are coming across as inappropriately over entitled.

Well, we implemented a 3 strikes system because of all the complaining they were doing - though they now seem to have backed off since it'll cost them money to pursue money that isn't worth it.

You are confusing complaining about them not getting your money, and them complaining when they refuse you service and you steal it instead. They were complaining about the theft, not about the money they lost they MAY have earned if you had consumed services they offered in this region.

networkn

Networkn
32351 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188394 27-Feb-2019 18:51

Bluntj:

MikeB4:

I didn't need to stop pirating as I never started in the first place. I believe that creators are entitled to payment be it music, film, software or cars.

Not really talking about the creators here at all. Nobody begrudges the creators fair share, but they are only receiving a very small part of it when it could be larger. We have way to many companies clicking the ticket without adding value.

Let's be sensible. The people who run these media companies are not stupid. They have obviously anaylzed the market and decided for some reason that NZ isn't attractive enough to offer the rights in. Either keeping track of the rights, or not enough money to be made etc etc.

They are not obliged to sell their rights here, no matter how much money you might think they might make (probably far less than you think).

They hold the rights, it's their choice.

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#2188395 27-Feb-2019 18:52

Bluntj:

MikeB4:

I didn't need to stop pirating as I never started in the first place. I believe that creators are entitled to payment be it music, film, software or cars.

Not really talking about the creators here at all. Nobody begrudges the creators fair share, but they are only receiving a very small part of it when it could be larger. We have way to many companies clicking the ticket without adding value.

The Netflex type model is the future and the dinosaurs like Sky will die screaming about trying to control the internet.

Netflix are not a creator. It acquires content from creators. It could pay peanuts compared to the success of some properties (Stranger Things sprins to mind). And it never tells the creators how successful or not a property is. Even coming into renewal. Netflix clips the ticket and banks the profit. Great model. Its just like all the other models.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

Tradepub

Free professional, reference and technical white papers (affiliate link).

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188398 27-Feb-2019 18:59

aspett:

I loathe that you reduce your argument to entitlement, and ultimately if you continue that, this will devolve to a generational argument.

Its not generational. Its BASIC math. If I make a product, it costs me $30. I sell it for $45. Based on my time and incidentals that's worthwhile for me. You say $45 is too much, $15 is reasonable. Well, the fact is you dont want to pay what its worth, in fact what it costs, you want it cheaper. You want an Audi for a Toyota price. That is unreasonable but you keep saying you will pay a reasonable price. What you really mean is you want it CHEAP. In fact you are possibly making it generational? Cost plus margin is as fair and reasonable as it can be. But you dont seem to want to pay that?

Another point wore raising.

You say you will pay for services but if it isn't here you will pirate. Well, thats wrong. You know why? because if it available on Pirating Island dot com it must be available at some overseas provider. But its not available here. But you could use the "accepted" alternative by paying that overseas provider (because as you said you have no issue with paying), using a VPN or unblock service (as VPN can be less ideal), and get the service, and pay for it as you do for the other 8 services that you pay for to get everything.

So pirating cannot be justified, unless the prime purpose is to avoid paying, even though you said paying is fine.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18660 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2188399 27-Feb-2019 19:02

This thread looks awfully familiar. As I have stated in the hundreds of others on this subject, I don't pirate but I do make use of geo-unblocking, which I see as my god-given right. There is a LOT of content made freely available in countries overseas but cut off in NZ. I don't give a s*** what the rights holders think they are entitled to. If it is free or for sale in Britain or the USA or someplace else, but is not made available here, then I will watch it there.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188400 27-Feb-2019 19:06

Bluntj:

MikeB4:

I didn't need to stop pirating as I never started in the first place. I believe that creators are entitled to payment be it music, film, software or cars.

Not really talking about the creators here at all. Nobody begrudges the creators fair share, but they are only receiving a very small part of it when it could be larger. We have way to many companies clicking the ticket without adding value.

The Netflex type model is the future and the dinosaurs like Sky will die screaming about trying to control the internet.

Hmmm ok... :-)

The Netflix example is the future. They aggregate a LOT of content. It's cheap. They dont actually compete with Sky. Netflix competes with other aggregators, such as Lightbox, Neon, Amazon, Hulu and so on. In fact Netflix doesn't compete with Lightbox either.

The dinosaur of Sky makes more money in NZ than the others put together. They SHOULD stop using sport to subside Basic, and allow Basic to be one of the $15 to $20 SVOD that compete (on price) Skys high price is sport, they do need to fix that. The Basic can be classed as a $15 to $20 SVOD along with the many others.

Then we can chat further.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188404 27-Feb-2019 19:13

Rikkitic:

This thread looks awfully familiar. As I have stated in the hundreds of others on this subject, I don't pirate but I do make use of geo-unblocking, which I see as my god-given right. There is a LOT of content made freely available in countries overseas but cut off in NZ. I don't give a s*** what the rights holders think they are entitled to. If it is free or for sale in Britain or the USA or someplace else, but is not made available here, then I will watch it there.

I can accept that. if its not here, then you can I guess do what you need to do to get it. That may be join the free or pay service, get an unblocker. At least you paid. My gripe is those who say its not here and pirate. When they could pay and get it as you do, with an unblocker service. It like TDGEEK ISAND is not here but I can get it from Amazon for $15, but no, I'll pirate it for free and use the excuse that I can't get it from here.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188405 27-Feb-2019 19:14

Rikkitic:

This thread looks awfully familiar.

Apart from the other 23 threads it doesn't look familiar! :-)

networkn

Networkn
32351 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188425 27-Feb-2019 20:04

Rikkitic:

I don't give a s*** what the rights holders think they are entitled to.

And THIS ladies and gentleman is what all all people who are on this side of the argument really think.

It's not about anything to do with fairness, or money, it's about what You want and to hell with anyone else.

I'm out, this is already a dumpster fire and I am sure I have better things to do with my time than continue conversing with people who ultimately it all boils down to the quoted text.

richms

28175 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2188432 27-Feb-2019 20:14

Andib:

I feel like the 'fight against piracy' was more of a push by the RIAA and the likes to hold on to their traditional business model of selling licensing rights to TV providers and selling Movies / TV shows on DVDs which made them more money. (Same thing happened when iTunes was new)

Back when iPods were a big thing, You could walk around an office and a majority of those with iPods would know at least how to pirate music even my family members who were not computer savvy knew how to use Kazaa & limewire. Now I don't know anyone who still actively pirates music because Spotify is more convenient.

The next big thing to cut down on piracy imo will be dropping the global release times. While there are Movies & TV Shows that are released in the US and being talked about online but yet to be released in the rest of the world there will be a desire for people to pirate it. Having content available globally on the same day (Like HBO / Soho are doing) means the need to pirate content to watch before you read a spoiler online is reduced.

I used to get a crapload of flacs off what.cd when it was around. Think I had about a 12TB buffer on my ratio. CBF now that spotify has stuff. For the holdout artists from there I just grab stuff off TPB but that is so much more hassle to listen to in this era of smart speakers and spotify connect.

I still will use hulu on a VPN and when that doesnt work go back to getting content from TPB - and since the system is 3 strikes I have no worries with the risk doing that.

Richard rich.ms

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18660 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2188436 27-Feb-2019 20:23

networkn:

Rikkitic:

I don't give a s*** what the rights holders think they are entitled to.

And THIS ladies and gentleman is what all all people who are on this side of the argument really think.

It's not about anything to do with fairness, or money, it's about what You want and to hell with anyone else.

I'm out, this is already a dumpster fire and I am sure I have better things to do with my time than continue conversing with people who ultimately it all boils down to the quoted text.

Yay, that's one gone.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5