HD's 'Unlimited Internet' not so unlimited

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › HD's 'Unlimited Internet' not so unlimited - a warning

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9

Networkn
33024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15610

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1590539 12-Jul-2016 20:36

It strikes me as nearing breach of good faith, and therefore a breach of the fair trading act, to specify an unlimited connection has a fair use policy, that doesn't state the threshold by which this would be breached, and secondly, to not provide a customer a method by which to monitor their usage.

Stan

929 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 183
Inactive user

#1590587 12-Jul-2016 21:01

It seems to me that they have been pushing by advertising on facebook etc, now they are purging as many high usage customers as they can so they don't have to buy more bandwidth and try and just keep low usage customers.

Jedsdad

120 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 24

#1590596 12-Jul-2016 21:22

This is from the Commerce Commission Guidelines for Broadband Suppliers.

Fair Use Policies
Broadband suppliers sometimes apply a “Fair Use”
policy. Under these policies customers may have
their service restricted if they use it excessively.
Fair Use policies may mean that customers cannot
use the service in the way that they want to. It
is important that both the applicability and the
terms of the policy are prominently displayed. The
application of these policies should not be hidden in
small print or in the general terms and conditions of
service.

The question is how prominent are the Fair Use policies displayed by HD?

The next question is how well are they written and then who actually reads the terms and conditions of the Broadband Service when they sign up?

Who actually understands them?

Jedsdad

networkn

Networkn
33024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15610

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1590599 12-Jul-2016 21:25

Jedsdad:

This is from the Commerce Commission Guidelines for Broadband Suppliers.

Fair Use Policies
Broadband suppliers sometimes apply a “Fair Use”
policy. Under these policies customers may have
their service restricted if they use it excessively.
Fair Use policies may mean that customers cannot
use the service in the way that they want to. It
is important that both the applicability and the
terms of the policy are prominently displayed. The
application of these policies should not be hidden in
small print or in the general terms and conditions of
service.

The question is how prominent are the Fair Use policies displayed by HD?

The next question is how well are they written and then who actually reads the terms and conditions of the Broadband Service when they sign up?

Who actually understands them?

They have not restricted his service, unless one is suggesting that someone choking another to death, is restricting their airflow :)

CloudScaleLtd

18 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

#1590600 12-Jul-2016 21:26

nitrotech:

Got a call out of the blue yesterday from unlimited internet (www.unlimitedinternet.co.nz) saying that they were disconnecting our home broadband.

Enquiring as to why - apparently we've used too much 'unlimited data'. (teenager in the house)

They tell me that it's in their terms and conditions and that it is a breach of their fair use policy.

While it doesn't worry me moving to another provider - the kicker is that they have given us 7 days to move.

A couple of things get me about this:

No warnings - just a call to say 'we're disconnecting you' - verbal too nothing written no email

7 Days is crazy - it may very well be possible to arrange a connection move in that time-frame but it puts pressure on everyone.

There is no way to check your data usage in their online portal - I've got no idea how much data we've used.

When you call the company 'unlimited internet' you've kinda put it out there .....

So just a warning that if you use a lot of data this may not be the provider for you.

Hey Guys,

Ben @ HD here, the owner of (a few things mentioned) posting from this account as it's the only one I have acquired during an acquisition with rep to post.

So I have read all this, cool, does anyone ever ask us? Keen to address the community concerns...

Re the OP post = yes quite a few TB's (over 2.5 on our accounting for many months in a row), cleaning up the network, instructions to a staff member from our network guys (run via me) I am sorry it's affected you personally, this is not personal against you, a few are also in your boat, I know you will be okay with another provider and 7 days should be okay as your connected (intact), if you get any issues Ill personally handle or credit you, just PM this account, ill keep an eye on it.

Re VPS company, yes cleaning up the network of VPN traffic (against AUP), using over 40TB per month for months and not paying BW = paying only our colo fee that includes unmetered traffic (super cheap as normal)...

Re kingjj = no conspiracy, no business issues, the only changes Re Zeon is iv been moving my share holdings around due to a separation :(

I do surf geekzone, and sometimes have some of my brands advertising on this site directly such as HH, UI, HD, CS etc, so keen to keep in good stead with y'all, iv been around a long time, coming up 10 years next month :)

Cheers,

kingjj

1731 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 450

ID Verified

Trusted

#1590604 12-Jul-2016 21:43

CloudScaleLtd:

nitrotech:

Got a call out of the blue yesterday from unlimited internet (www.unlimitedinternet.co.nz) saying that they were disconnecting our home broadband.

Enquiring as to why - apparently we've used too much 'unlimited data'. (teenager in the house)

They tell me that it's in their terms and conditions and that it is a breach of their fair use policy.

While it doesn't worry me moving to another provider - the kicker is that they have given us 7 days to move.

A couple of things get me about this:

No warnings - just a call to say 'we're disconnecting you' - verbal too nothing written no email

7 Days is crazy - it may very well be possible to arrange a connection move in that time-frame but it puts pressure on everyone.

There is no way to check your data usage in their online portal - I've got no idea how much data we've used.

When you call the company 'unlimited internet' you've kinda put it out there .....

So just a warning that if you use a lot of data this may not be the provider for you.

Hey Guys,

Ben @ HD here, the owner of (a few things mentioned) posting from this account as it's the only one I have acquired during an acquisition with rep to post.

So I have read all this, cool, does anyone ever ask us? Keen to address the community concerns...

Re the OP post = yes quite a few TB's (over 2.5 on our accounting for many months in a row), cleaning up the network, instructions to a staff member from our network guys (run via me) I am sorry it's affected you personally, this is not personal against you, a few are also in your boat, I know you will be okay with another provider and 7 days should be okay as your connected (intact), if you get any issues Ill personally handle or credit you, just PM this account, ill keep an eye on it.

Re VPS company, yes cleaning up the network of VPN traffic (against AUP), using over 40TB per month for months and not paying BW = paying only our colo fee that includes unmetered traffic (super cheap as normal)...

Re kingjj = no conspiracy, no business issues, the only changes Re Zeon is iv been moving my share holdings around due to a separation :(

I do surf geekzone, and sometimes have some of my brands advertising on this site directly such as HH, UI, HD, CS etc, so keen to keep in good stead with y'all, iv been around a long time, coming up 10 years next month :)

Cheers,

Thanks for responding, you will I'm sure understand that I (and I'm sure others here) will be a bit skeptical of your answers but I appreciate you answering.

Interesting that the issue with the VPS provider was VPN's, they did not mention this nor any other reason when mentioning the DC move. They do not offer very high BW allowances with their plans (up to 700gb per month on top plan @100mb) so I really can't see them being much use for VPN's but business is business and if they were breaching you AUP so be it.

Can you please explain your reasoning for removing the OP and others in the same boat? Are you targeting X% of the top users for 'network performance' reasons or is it because of the cost of supporting them? You advertise as 'unlimited', one poster here has mentioned using 1tb per month, in this day and age that does not seem 'unreasonable' especially when a quick search here can't find any other members mentioning being limited/tossed by their providers while on 'unlimited' plans. Would it be fair to say that you would prefer users to be under 1tb per month, perhaps closer to 200gb per month? (as mentioned in another post). How does 1tb/200gb equate to 'unlimited internet'? It kinda of feels like a bait-and-switch hiding behind a 'fair use' policy and not offering anyone the means to manage their usage.

I'm not trying to attack you or your company, I'm simply seeking clarification. Thanks

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

thecatsgoolies

414 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 228

Trusted

#1590611 12-Jul-2016 21:54

You can't call / advertise a service as unlimited and then put caps in the terms or cut off service cause they are using too much ' unlimited ' I highly recommend all users to contact ASA (Advertising standards authority) and the Commerce commission

Wheelbarrow01

1796 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2682

Trusted

Chorus

#1590619 12-Jul-2016 22:09

What I don't understand is that on www.unlimitedinternet.co.nz the FAQ section states:

"So there's no data cap on any of the plans?"

"Nope. You're free to use as much data as you like. We don't even track your usage".

If that part about not tracking usage is true, how can they even know that the OP has exceeded his fair use? They - by their own admission - cannot/do not measure it... In the same answer it goes on to say "If this is happening on a regular basis then we will get in touch with you and discuss changing your use or moving to a more appropriate plan" - This is clearly not the experience the OP has had, unless we are not getting the full story.

The good news is that there seems to be no 30 day notice period in this case (or there shouldn't be as you are leaving at THEIR request), so pick a new provider, request a transition to them, and enjoy a 'more unlimited experience' with a company which ironically won't have the word 'Unlimited' in their name.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

CloudScaleLtd

18 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

#1590622 12-Jul-2016 22:11

kingjj:

Thanks for responding, you will I'm sure understand that I (and I'm sure others here) will be a bit skeptical of your answers but I appreciate you answering.

Interesting that the issue with the VPS provider was VPN's, they did not mention this nor any other reason when mentioning the DC move. They do not offer very high BW allowances with their plans (up to 700gb per month on top plan @100mb) so I really can't see them being much use for VPN's but business is business and if they were breaching you AUP so be it.

Can you please explain your reasoning for removing the OP and others in the same boat? Are you targeting X% of the top users for 'network performance' reasons or is it because of the cost of supporting them? You advertise as 'unlimited', one poster here has mentioned using 1tb per month, in this day and age that does not seem 'unreasonable' especially when a quick search here can't find any other members mentioning being limited/tossed by their providers while on 'unlimited' plans. Would it be fair to say that you would prefer users to be under 1tb per month, perhaps closer to 200gb per month? (as mentioned in another post). How does 1tb/200gb equate to 'unlimited internet'? It kinda of feels like a bait-and-switch hiding behind a 'fair use' policy and not offering anyone the means to manage their usage.

I'm not trying to attack you or your company, I'm simply seeking clarification. Thanks

Yes, I understand this, have no problem with that.

re the VPS, they said, to not really knowing what the customers were doing and were saying they were looking to get CIR with us, then decided to move to another provider last minute without notice (today actually), no idea why overall, maybe more behind their decision than they let on, but that's business.

Great question, for the first time in about 2 years since starting UI we are looking at the User usages over the past 6 months, facts are that over the client base, 10% of the users use 90% of the bandwidth spend.

I feel it's more house keeping as we have left it for so long, I do want a no congestion service and this stuff keeps that a reality.

Many users sit between 500G and 1.5TB per month, a large %, not an issue, but it also depends if this is coming from cache, if so we dont care, one user is doing around 80TB a month, but thats to our network, we mainly are focused on international spend as we moved to a better upstream some time back as this is an ISP's biggest cost other than the ports.

This is no bait and switch scheme (sure if we were a few months old, we are here for the long haul) hope that answers :)

CloudScaleLtd

18 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

#1590624 12-Jul-2016 22:17

Wheelbarrow01:

What I don't understand is that on www.unlimitedinternet.co.nz the FAQ section states:

"So there's no data cap on any of the plans?"

"Nope. You're free to use as much data as you like. We don't even track your usage".

If that part about not tracking usage is true, how can they even know that the OP has exceeded his fair use? They - by their own admission - cannot/do not measure it... In the same answer it goes on to say "If this is happening on a regular basis then we will get in touch with you and discuss changing your use or moving to a more appropriate plan" - This is clearly not the experience the OP has had, unless we are not getting the full story.

The good news is that there seems to be no 30 day notice period in this case (or there shouldn't be as you are leaving at THEIR request), so pick a new provider, request a transition to them, and enjoy a 'more unlimited experience' with a company which ironically won't have the word 'Unlimited' in their name.

Great spotting, we are in the middle of a website/company revamp, the current website is our original content since launch some time ago, this will be updated and or replaced when the new one gets released soon.

See above post, house keeping not perfect, im first to admit that.

Im reviewing/renewing the company at present, getting it ready for it's next phase.

KrazyKid

1250 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 621

#1590625 12-Jul-2016 22:18

rb99:

So seeing as most ISP's offering unlimited don't tell you your usage, would anyone know of / be able to recommend any kind of downloadable usage monitor that would be easy to use for un-geeks like me ?

@rb99 I know I am on unlimited and I 2 Degrees let me track my usage via their web portal. I believe Spark also tells you your usage on unlimited.

These days with multiple devices connected (TV, PC, Phones, tablets etc etc) to get a true measure of usage you need to track it via your router or something on your network as it heads past the router. I know the Fritzbox does this - not sure on other routers

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

Stan

929 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 183
Inactive user

#1590640 12-Jul-2016 22:23

CloudScaleLtd:

kingjj:

Thanks for responding, you will I'm sure understand that I (and I'm sure others here) will be a bit skeptical of your answers but I appreciate you answering.

Interesting that the issue with the VPS provider was VPN's, they did not mention this nor any other reason when mentioning the DC move. They do not offer very high BW allowances with their plans (up to 700gb per month on top plan @100mb) so I really can't see them being much use for VPN's but business is business and if they were breaching you AUP so be it.

Can you please explain your reasoning for removing the OP and others in the same boat? Are you targeting X% of the top users for 'network performance' reasons or is it because of the cost of supporting them? You advertise as 'unlimited', one poster here has mentioned using 1tb per month, in this day and age that does not seem 'unreasonable' especially when a quick search here can't find any other members mentioning being limited/tossed by their providers while on 'unlimited' plans. Would it be fair to say that you would prefer users to be under 1tb per month, perhaps closer to 200gb per month? (as mentioned in another post). How does 1tb/200gb equate to 'unlimited internet'? It kinda of feels like a bait-and-switch hiding behind a 'fair use' policy and not offering anyone the means to manage their usage.

I'm not trying to attack you or your company, I'm simply seeking clarification. Thanks

Yes, I understand this, have no problem with that.

re the VPS, they said, to not really knowing what the customers were doing and were saying they were looking to get CIR with us, then decided to move to another provider last minute without notice (today actually), no idea why overall, maybe more behind their decision than they let on, but that's business.

Great question, for the first time in about 2 years since starting UI we are looking at the User usages over the past 6 months, facts are that over the client base, 10% of the users use 90% of the bandwidth spend.

I feel it's more house keeping as we have left it for so long, I do want a no congestion service and this stuff keeps that a reality.

Many users sit between 500G and 1.5TB per month, a large %, not an issue, but it also depends if this is coming from cache, if so we dont care, one user is doing around 80TB a month, but thats to our network, we mainly are focused on international spend as we moved to a better upstream some time back as this is an ISP's biggest cost other than the ports.

This is no bait and switch scheme (sure if we were a few months old, we are here for the long haul) hope that answers :)

Hello Ben,

My friends flat used around 1tb last month and was told this was too much so he is throttled the response from the person he spoke to said that he should be using less than 200gb can you address this?

CloudScaleLtd

18 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

#1590645 12-Jul-2016 22:30

Stan:

Hello Ben,

My friends flat used around 1tb last month and was told this was too much so he is throttled the response from the person he spoke to said that he should be using less than 200gb can you address this?

Hi, thats not correct if thats the case at all, we dont shape, throttle traffic for UI users at all, in any case, to much network admin for that stuff.

I dont know what all staff say to customers, but thats not the case, unless they have used more and are in the same boat as the OP, maybe just PM me your username and ill find out more for you.

Stan

929 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 183
Inactive user

#1590649 12-Jul-2016 22:38

CloudScaleLtd:

Stan:

Hello Ben,

My friends flat used around 1tb last month and was told this was too much so he is throttled the response from the person he spoke to said that he should be using less than 200gb can you address this?

Hi, thats not correct if thats the case at all, we dont shape, throttle traffic for UI users at all, in any case, to much network admin for that stuff.

I dont know what all staff say to customers, but thats not the case, unless they have used more and are in the same boat as the OP, maybe just PM me your username and ill find out more for you.

Pm'd you his user name I helped him set up the account with Unlimited Internet so you can see how this looks bad.

To be honest 1tb of data is nothing these days our flat used to do that back in the slingshot unlimited days on adsl2 I can understand if someone is pulling more than 2+tb a month.

Even now that I have my own house with just myself and my wife we average 600-700gb a month as I upload alot to the cloud as well as use steam/other gaming services and stream alot from netflix, youtube and twitch etc.

CloudScaleLtd

18 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

#1590651 12-Jul-2016 22:44

Stan:

Replied, sorry I couldn't give you better news :(

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9