VDSL Performance & Tuning

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#797517 11-Apr-2013 00:34

Back on the topic of DLM-1 thresholds; looking back at previous posts I can see another factor which might be at work here: SNRM.

When I was last taken off DLM-1 I had a CRCPM of 0.7 but a SNRM of 8. Maybe there is some limit for SNRM as well? Has anyone else run on a 8 or lower SNRM on DLM-1?

That said, I did restart my router quite a few times the night before I was moved off DLM-1 so this may have caused it in that case.

sidefx

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#797535 11-Apr-2013 07:30

I still reckon they probably use the system I found previously in the DLM patents by some european ISP (was it BT) to "detect" user resets which suggested detection was more of an educated guess based on rules around how long you're disconnected. i forget the details but it's somewhere in this thread.

The upshot was that disconnecting the line and staying disconnected for a decent window of time would mean that it's more likely to be "detected" as a user reset not caused by errors. That was part of the reasoning behind my process above - along with some of the apparent bugs we've come across in the fritz firmware,. But yeah I usually try to keep it disconnected for a good 5-10 minutes when doing it and also keep the fritz powered down for a little while, not an instant on/off, like 2-3 min. 5 might be good to be safe for the power off.

Oh and yes, Im currently still on target SNRM of 8 (-40 I think for DownstreamMArginOffset) and it actually sits on 7dB the majority of the time. My CRCPM rate has been over 1 for quite a while and still on DLM1 with this SNRM.

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hio77

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#797711 11-Apr-2013 12:23

not quite sure what DLM got up to last night, stats havent seemed to have changed, except for the error rate..

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SamF

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#797763 11-Apr-2013 13:31

@sidefx: Ok, that's interesting, so SNRM isn't an issue then, at least not down to 7db. My issue must have been excessive resets then.

@hio77: Bonus! That's a bit odd, but good!

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#797775 11-Apr-2013 13:48

SamF: @hio77: Bonus! That's a bit odd, but good!

rather odd, i thought i may have dropped back more DLM stages, but it doesnt look like it.. what DLM does to you line really can be a mystery sometimes..

might just not touch the settings and see what it does with DLM1, hopefully it drops back down soon :/

the pings were nice while they lasted..

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stevehodge

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#797777 11-Apr-2013 13:55

hio77: not quite sure what DLM got up to last night, stats havent seemed to have changed, except for the error rate..

Was that sync between 7 and 8pm initiated by you?

The DLM level doesn't appear to have changed but I think you may have dropped from DLM-2 to DLM-4 (which we think the Fritz!Box miss-reports). Either that or there are parameters to the configuration that we can't see in the interface (and that wouldn't surprise me at all).

hio77

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#797779 11-Apr-2013 14:00

stevehodge:
hio77: not quite sure what DLM got up to last night, stats havent seemed to have changed, except for the error rate..

-snip-

Was that sync between 7 and 8pm initiated by you?

The DLM level doesn't appear to have changed but I think you may have dropped from DLM-2 to DLM-4 (which we think the Fritz!Box miss-reports). Either that or there are parameters to the configuration that we can't see in the interface (and that wouldn't surprise me at all).

that was actually 3~4am, the time on the fritz keeps going out.. i was going to manually set it, but that enforces a reboot..

it may have dropped me to DLM-4.. i kinda thought that may have been a little bit of a reach for it to shove me back to, but then, the error rates do go to confirm that, except last time i had DLM-4, i was on 36mbit..

on another point, has anyone actually managed to get telnet to let you in? #96*7* states it enables telnetd but it still rejects the connection..

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stevehodge

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#797804 11-Apr-2013 14:54

hio77: have dropped me to DLM-4.. i kinda thought that may have been a little bit of a reach for it to shove me back to, but then, the error rates do go to confirm that, except last time i had DLM-4, i was on 36mbit..

I think you were on DLM-6 when you had 36Mbps - at the least the stats you posted on March 25 had INP 2 with 36 Mbit. When it changed on the 6th it put you on 39MBps and INP 0 but this was probably really DLM-4. On the 8th you had 41Mbps - that would be DLM-2. Then on the 10th you went to DLM-1. This seems to be the classic pattern. Then it dropped you down again and you had 39016. And now with the latest resync you've got 39424. So either it dropped from DLM-1 to DLM-2 to DLM-4 or it dropped you from DLM-1 to DLM-4 and now you're back to DLM-2. The speeds kind of indicate the latter, though usually we only see a single level change (though it's complicated by the Fritz not reporting DLM-2 correctly).

One interesting thing I just noticed is that you had lower sync rate on DLM-1 (40200) than you did on DLM-2 (41136). This may be a factor in why DLM took you off DLM-1.

Get your wiring sorted!

hio77

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#797810 11-Apr-2013 15:02

stevehodge:
hio77: have dropped me to DLM-4.. i kinda thought that may have been a little bit of a reach for it to shove me back to, but then, the error rates do go to confirm that, except last time i had DLM-4, i was on 36mbit..

I think you were on DLM-6 when you had 36Mbps - at the least the stats you posted on March 25 had INP 2 with 36 Mbit. When it changed on the 6th it put you on 39MBps and INP 0 but this was probably really DLM-4. On the 8th you had 41Mbps - that would be DLM-2. Then on the 10th you went to DLM-1. This seems to be the classic pattern. Then it dropped you down again and you had 39016. And now with the latest resync you've got 39424. So either it dropped from DLM-1 to DLM-2 to DLM-4 or it dropped you from DLM-1 to DLM-4 and now you're back to DLM-2. The speeds kind of indicate the latter, though usually we only see a single level change (though it's complicated by the Fritz not reporting DLM-2 correctly).

One interesting thing I just noticed is that you had lower sync rate on DLM-1 (40200) than you did on DLM-2 (41136). This may be a factor in why DLM took you off DLM-1.

Get your wiring sorted!

mhm, didnt consider DLM-6 .. found it odd that DLM-1 was slightly lower syncing too..

plan on getting my wireing sorted as soon as i can figure out on the landlord allowing it, surely i dont see an issue with sorting out line issues though!

hopefully they patch out the issue with DLM showing the wrong INP at some point..

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redstorm

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#797814 11-Apr-2013 15:10

hio77:

mhm, didnt consider DLM-6 .. found it odd that DLM-1 was slightly lower syncing too..

plan on getting my wireing sorted as soon as i can figure out on the landlord allowing it, surely i dont see an issue with sorting out line issues though!

hopefully they patch out the issue with DLM showing the wrong INP at some point..

As a landlord myself, I would suggest you approach it like this.

Offer to install a VDSL master filter, connect the jack with the fritz to the modem side, and connect all the other sockets to the phone side. This way all the jacks are still connected for future tenants. Lable the VDSL jack point.

DON'T, tell him you want to disconnect all the jacks except one... <- i wouldn't see this going down well...

hio77

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#797817 11-Apr-2013 15:21

redstorm:
hio77:

mhm, didnt consider DLM-6 .. found it odd that DLM-1 was slightly lower syncing too..

plan on getting my wireing sorted as soon as i can figure out on the landlord allowing it, surely i dont see an issue with sorting out line issues though!

hopefully they patch out the issue with DLM showing the wrong INP at some point..

As a landlord myself, I would suggest you approach it like this.

Offer to install a VDSL master filter, connect the jack with the fritz to the modem side, and connect all the other sockets to the phone side. This way all the jacks are still connected for future tenants. Lable the VDSL jack point.

DON'T, tell him you want to disconnect all the jacks except one... <- i wouldn't see this going down well...

thanks for that, trying to get information out of the 'main flatmate' is pushing it.. short of the words internet, things just get lost in translation.. working on just getting the landlords information so and permission for me to just ask myself..

by no means would i say, yeh, i plan on unplugging all the other jacks, and if that was the case, i would do it in such a way that upon leaving, i can simply restore it to the state i left it in - clearly a vdsl splitter would be the better of the options however.

oh and in respect to telnet, turns out it was dropped from the firmware for some reason..

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SamF

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#798650 13-Apr-2013 01:08

FYI, I've updated the main post with the latest recommendations regarding SNRM adjustment procedures and also added gavinbennett's before / after images from when he was fixing up his internal wiring!

dan

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#799915 15-Apr-2013 22:26

Just got VDSL a few days ago, pretty impressed to far.

I didnt have any DLM changes for 3 days or so, stayed at the same speed it initially synced at, started of 46mbit down 10up and stayed that way until sparky kept switching the power off and on trying to isolate a crazy power issue ive been having in the house

after all those power resets i checked my VDSL and its at 63mbit down.

pretty happy.

hio77

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#799916 15-Apr-2013 22:30

dan: Just got VDSL a few days ago, pretty impressed to far.

I didnt have any DLM changes for 3 days or so, stayed at the same speed it initially synced at, started of 46mbit down 10up and stayed that way until sparky kept switching the power off and on trying to isolate a crazy power issue ive been having in the house

after all those power resets i checked my VDSL and its at 63mbit down.

pretty happy.

nice 17a profile there! interesting that you got 17a after a bunch of reboots and so fast, from what i have read here, theres a low chance to get moved to it..

maybe DLM moves you to 17a if your line seems to be having a lot of issues?

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mattgreen

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#799923 15-Apr-2013 22:46

hio77:
dan: Just got VDSL a few days ago, pretty impressed to far.

I didnt have any DLM changes for 3 days or so, stayed at the same speed it initially synced at, started of 46mbit down 10up and stayed that way until sparky kept switching the power off and on trying to isolate a crazy power issue ive been having in the house

after all those power resets i checked my VDSL and its at 63mbit down.

pretty happy.

nice 17a profile there! interesting that you got 17a after a bunch of reboots and so fast, from what i have read here, theres a low chance to get moved to it..

maybe DLM moves you to 17a if your line seems to be having a lot of issues?

The 5db line attenuation and low error rates is probably under some threshold for an upgrade to 17a. The re-syncs probably just sped up DLM profile upgrades that might have been spaced over a few days.

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