VDSL Performance & Tuning

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#822695 20-May-2013 21:47

networkn: Well nearly 4 weeks nothing has improved more than about 1Mbit.

Well it's not really the point of what I am using the bandwidth for (Very large backups), it's the fact it was 70Mbit for 2 years, the ISP who took me over ASSURED me I would get back to my normal rate or they would escalate now they are telling me they can't do anything. Not impressed. Essentially a 30% drop in speed.

Bear in mind that the difference between 44 & 70mbit isn't so much what your line is capable of, it's the profile you're on: 8b vs 17a. 17a enables a heap more spectrum and that's why you're able to get up to 70mbit. You won't see a gradual increase from 40 to 70mbit, it will just swap over to 17a one day and that'll be that - you'll probably jump straight back up to 70mbit.

Also bear in mind that no-one currently knows all the criteria that DLM uses to select 17a, and we currently have no idea how long it takes on average. That said; post your current stats up and we'll take a look at them.

hio77

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#822700 20-May-2013 21:58

eXDee: ARGH i lost DLM-1 :(

Minimum 25ms to anywhere now, doubles latency to auckland. Lame. It looks like my DSL got me kicked off at 4am this morning. I guess i can drop SNR and hope it swaps me back? Anything else i can change?

what did your error rate settle down at on DLM-1? may have been just that little bit too high..

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SamF

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#822716 20-May-2013 22:20

eXDee: ARGH i lost DLM-1 :(

Minimum 25ms to anywhere now, doubles latency to auckland. Lame. It looks like my DSL got me kicked off at 4am this morning. I guess i can drop SNR and hope it swaps me back? Anything else i can change?

Bummer dude! I feel your pain!

One thing I've been looking for an opportunity to try out is to SNRM hack the config to +100 or +10db and see if that swaps you back to DLM-1 faster. Your SNRM should end up at around 21-22db and you'll probably loose ~10-15mbit of speed for the time being, but if you want back to DLM-1 fast, it might just do it as the error rate will be NOTHING!

eXDee

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#822718 20-May-2013 22:23

hio77:
eXDee: ARGH i lost DLM-1 :(

Minimum 25ms to anywhere now, doubles latency to auckland. Lame. It looks like my DSL got me kicked off at 4am this morning. I guess i can drop SNR and hope it swaps me back? Anything else i can change?

what did your error rate settle down at on DLM-1? may have been just that little bit too high..

I have no idea. It doesn't keep that statistic once DSL resyncs. I wonder if there is SNMP or anything for logging hmmm. It was fine in the days after checking it.

SamF:
Bummer dude! I feel your pain!

One thing I've been looking for an opportunity to try out is to SNRM hack the config to +100 or +10db and see if that swaps you back to DLM-1 faster. Your SNRM should end up at around 21-22db and you'll probably loose ~10-15mbit of speed for the time being, but if you want back to DLM-1 fast, it might just do it as the error rate will be NOTHING!

I'm going to tweak it back another notch and leave it a week. If it doesn't work, ill try that.

SamF

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#822721 20-May-2013 22:29

It seems to take at least 2 weeks to swap back to DLM1 normally.

hio77

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#822722 20-May-2013 22:36

eXDee:
hio77:
eXDee: ARGH i lost DLM-1 :(

Minimum 25ms to anywhere now, doubles latency to auckland. Lame. It looks like my DSL got me kicked off at 4am this morning. I guess i can drop SNR and hope it swaps me back? Anything else i can change?

what did your error rate settle down at on DLM-1? may have been just that little bit too high..

I have no idea. It doesn't keep that statistic once DSL resyncs. I wonder if there is SNMP or anything for logging hmmm. It was fine in the days after checking it.
.

doesn't seem to support SNMP, does do TR-064 which apparently shows CRC rates etc, however the documentation it links to itself, doesn't indicate any way to retrieve it.. (it is almost all in german after all..)

considered telnet, but that was removed a few firmwares back.. so iv been toying with retrieving the information over HTTP...

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SamF

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#822732 20-May-2013 23:19

I retrieve stats via an annoyingly complicated keyboard macro. if anyone can find a better way I'd be very grateful!

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SamF

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#822735 20-May-2013 23:39

Hmm, found this which looks interesting:
http://www.avm.de/de/Extern/files/tr-064/AVM_TR-064_first_steps.pdf?

stevehodge

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#822736 20-May-2013 23:44

networkn:
Well it's not really the point of what I am using the bandwidth for (Very large backups), it's the fact it was 70Mbit for 2 years, the ISP who took me over ASSURED me I would get back to my normal rate or they would escalate now they are telling me they can't do anything. Not impressed. Essentially a 30% drop in speed.

Yeah, it sucks that they gave you bad advice. We don't have a lot of info on what is required to get switched to 17a and I doubt the ISPs know either. They probably just thought that since you were on 17a before you'd get back on 17a quite fast, but I suspect you were on 17a because someone manually set you up for that. If so then there is no guarantee that DLM will do the same. I think it's primarily based on attenuation and may also be affected by other connections to the same cabinet. Do you know what your attenuation is?

I have seen DLM level changes about one month after initial connection, so if you're not already on DLM-1 you might see a change to towards the end of the week. But until you go onto 17a you're not going to see much better than 50 Mbps (and you'll probably need to apply a SNRM target tweek to get that).

I asked about what you were doing because in my experience there isn't much that can saturate even 45 Mbps for long and I can't say the difference between 45 Mbps and 65 Mbps has been that noticeable for me. So I was curious. You're downloading backups, right? Because uploads are limited to 10 Mbps regardless of 8b/17a.

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#822737 20-May-2013 23:47

SamF: I retrieve stats via an annoyingly complicated keyboard macro. if anyone can find a better way I'd be very grateful!

Get someone at snap to refresh your port and to run an extended line test on your vdsl line. I got my Helpdesk guys at work to do that for me today, I'll post up the results of mine as the graphs do look interesting and not too hard to interpret .

Of course you can skip the port refresh step, but seeing the graphs change as DLM kicks in every few hours initially was kinda cool for me to look at (phew, just as well this is geek zone)

eXDee

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#822740 21-May-2013 00:04

insane:
SamF: I retrieve stats via an annoyingly complicated keyboard macro. if anyone can find a better way I'd be very grateful!

Get someone at snap to refresh your port and to run an extended line test on your vdsl line. I got my Helpdesk guys at work to do that for me today, I'll post up the results of mine as the graphs do look interesting and not too hard to interpret .

Of course you can skip the port refresh step, but seeing the graphs change as DLM kicks in every few hours initially was kinda cool for me to look at (phew, just as well this is geek zone)

I'd be keen to do that, though i hope it's straightforward and not too much inconvenience for them.

Also I doubt i'll get to see the shiny graphs like you did haha.

hio77

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#822744 21-May-2013 01:05

SamF: I retrieve stats via an annoyingly complicated keyboard macro. if anyone can find a better way I'd be very grateful!

so odd thing happened with tonight look at the fritzbox page, last time i played with it the ajax auto update wasnt working for some reason and so i assumed it to be just a static page..

turns out there is a XML retrieval
http://fritz.box/cgi-bin/webcm?getpage=../html/de/internet/adsldaten.xml&sid=x

would seem the xml has slightly more information than the interface itself shows, still working on relating exactly to where the values line up (theres two sets of CRCs for example, im under the impression it may be a current dsl sync all time counter of some sort)

finally trawled through more of the very messy and semi translated javascript in the interface itself.. turns out the current firmware im running does actually do the "fast" textual reference for interleaving off so it would seem AVM may have tried to simplify that down a tad. (currently there are two values, delay in ms, and interleaving status as a boolean)

everything in the web interface, is all versioned using the GUIversion variable in the xml, so theres a few sets of possible actions to play out with the data.. along with different methods for adsl vs vdsl..

heres a dump of my xml if your interested without having to go find your current sid..
http://hio77.com/fritz.xml

looking at spitting all the data into a database at some regular interval, if anyone else is interested in collecting a bunch of data on lines, from that point it could be graphed and might help get more exact information on DLM..

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stevehodge

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#822810 21-May-2013 10:04

hio77:
turns out there is a XML retrieval
http://fritz.box/cgi-bin/webcm?getpage=../html/de/internet/adsldaten.xml&sid=x

would seem the xml has slightly more information than the interface itself shows, still working on relating exactly to where the values line up (theres two sets of CRCs for example, im under the impression it may be a current dsl sync all time counter of some sort)

That's interesting. The FEC_min and CRC_min values correspond to the "per Minute" columns for me. I guess the "Last 15 minutes" columns come from the other FEC/CRC values but I can't see how - those values appears to be counters since the connection was initiated.

looking at spitting all the data into a database at some regular interval, if anyone else is interested in collecting a bunch of data on lines, from that point it could be graphed and might help get more exact information on DLM..

I'm interesting it whatever you come up with.

The TR-064 stuff that Sam posted also looks good. You can get the service description from your box at:
http://fritz.box:49000/tr64desc.xml
and from that you can get a description of the available commands for each part of the system. E.g. for the DSL connection:
http://fritz.box:49000/wandslifconfigSCPD.xml
This seems to have access to more statistics that the web interface.

SamF

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#822919 21-May-2013 12:51

Nice! Good work everyone!

The only issue with anything that requires a sid, is that this obviously expires after a short period. I've not found a way around that as yet, but maybe there is another method?

The TR0-64 stuff is looking good, but HTH do you actually run the individual commands??

I would certainly like to be able to output these stats to a .txt file on a line by line basis and then import the data into excel or something to analyse.

hio77

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#822925 21-May-2013 13:01

SamF: Nice! Good work everyone!

The only issue with anything that requires a sid, is that this obviously expires after a short period. I've not found a way around that as yet, but maybe there is another method?

The TR0-64 stuff is looking good, but HTH do you actually run the individual commands??

I would certainly like to be able to output these stats to a .txt file on a line by line basis and then import the data into excel or something to analyse.

running the commands doesnt seem to be very well documented at all.. seems it uses a sid or something for authentication somewhere along the lines..

with the sid, im obtaining it right before accessing data, the process of obtaining it is rather tedious and long winded as compared to a simple username, password and go sorta case..

router hands out a "challenge"

password is then taken and put infront of the challenge (challenge-password) at that point, it is md5 encrypted.

the final response to be sent to the router to get the sid, goes as sending the challenge once again, then the hashed response (challenge-hashedrespose)

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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