HD's 'Unlimited Internet' not so unlimited

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › HD's 'Unlimited Internet' not so unlimited - a warning

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20147 posts

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#1590976 13-Jul-2016 13:52

Jedsdad:

I note that the Telecommunications Disputes Resolution organisation allow for at least 5 working days if an ISP is going to suspend or disconnect a service so UI are not being overly draconian compared with others in that organisation.

It is probably a good reason to only use an ISP that is a member of the TDR. I always do, incase I have a problem, and have found using the TDR does end up with a satisfactory result. The price difference between an ISP who is a member, and one that isn't is hardly anything I found, and ISPs are pretty much a commodity service these days.

myfullflavour

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#1590980 13-Jul-2016 13:58

Jedsdad:
Full Flavour for instance. Full Flavour say they have a Fair Use Policy but I cannot find it on their website.

We don't have an automatic online sign-up process but the FUP is in every customer's agreement. On the pricing page is the line "Unmetered data (subject to fair use policy)".

There is also a page dedicated to our fair use policy. It's very hard to miss.

Customers have to sign this agreement before we order their service.

Should also point out we don't advertise an "unlimited" service, we state it's unmetered.

Our FUP clarifies it's unmetered for billing purposes (so our UFB customers will never experience bill shock).

evnafets

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#1590982 13-Jul-2016 14:01

richms:

sbiddle:

meesham:

Was that there yesterday?

waybackmachine has it cached from March https://web.archive.org/web/20160328223201/http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/terms

Even worse. They have been planning this from at least march then and not had the decency to contact this user about their usage of the service at all.

I don't quite understand your "even worse, they have been planning this from at least march" comment.

The version cached back in March does not mention the "We may ask you to find a new service provider within 7 days".

I guess that means they have updated the terms and conditions since March. Waybackmachine doesn't tell you exactly when though.

They do though!

Under the introduction section, the cached version has: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 01/12/2014"

The current version: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 18/04/2016."

dejadeadnz

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#1590983 13-Jul-2016 14:03

Someone please ban me from viewing this thread as I am literally putting my health at risk by laughing so hard.

Full disclosure: I don't work for an IT company, so I am not a competitor in disguise.

richms

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#1590985 13-Jul-2016 14:05

evnafets:

I don't quite understand your "even worse, they have been planning this from at least march" comment.

The version cached back in March does not mention the "We may ask you to find a new service provider within 7 days".

I guess that means they have updated the terms and conditions since March. Waybackmachine doesn't tell you exactly when though.

They do though!

Under the introduction section, the cached version has: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 01/12/2014"

The current version: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 18/04/2016."

I thought that when steve said they were cached from march, it meant the current ones were, not that the ones cached from march were different. So april instead they were planning this from. 2 months instead of 3 they could have contacted the customer to discuss the usage they were putting on the connection. Still plenty of time rather than a 7 day get off our network.

I hope the OP is making sure that the last few days on their network are maxing it out to get the most bang for their buck off it.

Richard rich.ms

meesham

973 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1590988 13-Jul-2016 14:08

evnafets:

Under the introduction section, the cached version has: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 01/12/2014"

The current version: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 18/04/2016."

Did anyone actually read it yesterday? I'm just wondering if they've added the new clauses and backdated it.

nitrotech

1285 posts

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#1590989 13-Jul-2016 14:08

Wow this thread has taken some unexpected twists and turns, good on Ben for fronting however I wonder which customer service handbook was used when composing the reply? 'blame the customer with a hint of sarcasm'

The 90/10 rule is a problem for businesses (not just ISP's) worldwide - the problem is that ditching that 10% of so called unprofitable customers ditches their revenue too, I've yet to meet anyone who has successfully got this one nailed - I guess we'll just have to wait and see if it works in this case.

Anyway I have signed with another provider and just awaiting a connection date.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

Jedsdad

120 posts

Master Geek

#1590991 13-Jul-2016 14:09

There are a number of ISP's with Fair Use Policies and I dont need to start entering details like address etc before I get to see what their FUP is, unlike with Full Flavour

dejadeadnz

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#1591005 13-Jul-2016 14:18

I just can't stop viewing this, since the failures are so total. It's like a morbid fascination to this guy (thank goodness I am not working today). Let's for posterity sake summarise the failings of UI here.

1. Use of over aggressive/bold (compared to industry norms) claims/headlines. A June 19 2015 post on their Facebook page says:

Do you like streaming? But hate being throttled? Is UFB available where you live? Go unlimited today! No Contracts, No Datacaps, No Credit Checks Just Broadband. http://unlimitedinternet.co.nz/ or 0800 300 036

The Commerce Commission had this to say on fine prints. The emphasis is mine:

With all advertising, the first or overall impression made on a potential customer is very important. People reading, seeing or hearing an advertisement can react to and make decisions based on that first or overall impression. In making that impression, sometimes what is not said is just as important as what is said.

Many advertisements include fine print sections containing details of conditions and qualifications. Fine print should not be used to conceal important information which would be critical to a person's decision to buy goods or services. If the overall impression given by an advertisement is misleading, it will breach the Fair Trading Act no matter what information is provided in fine print.

The courts have indicated that they will not take into account the confines of any advertising medium in deciding whether a particular advertisement is misleading. Businesses need to ensure that the main message conveyed in any advertisement - whether in print, on TV, radio, or online - is accurate rather than relying on the fine print to correct a misleading impression.

There is another important point not made by the Commission. Even literally true statements can be held to be misleading and deceptive under settled case law, if it is used in a way that creates a false overall impression. Yes, there are "no datacaps" but if UI had transparently told people that the fair use policy exists and applies (which the detective work of others suggests as being in existence since 2014), a prospective customer will not be anywhere near as positively impacted.

2. UI's disclosure of their fair use policy is well short of already questionable industry norms.

3. The presentation, writing and enforcement of the fair use policy is well short of those of competitors and is far less customer friendly. Again, VF's for example makes positive suggestions on how to make everyone happy.

4. The explanations of UI's failures by their representative have been implausible and unconvincing.

This is literally a textbook case on how not to handle risks and customer relations.

networkn

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#1591006 13-Jul-2016 14:19

I must say that the tone of some of these replies does not reflect well on us as a community. I feel you can state facts as you understand them, you can be critical of someone elses responses, or how they handle themselves in a particular situation, yeah I can get that too, but openly mocking, or making comments around popcorn (as one and not singling out anyone specifically) and getting amusement and enjoyment in seeing someone elses demise, it's a step too far in my book, as is gloating and "rubbing it in".

dejadeadnz

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#1591010 13-Jul-2016 14:27

You might disagree but if anyone gets an element of pleasure out of a company's obvious failures which clearly (partly) arises out of an already admitted poor attitude towards legal and risk compliance, it is judgments that these individuals are entitled to make. From my POV, the sooner businesses that handle these things poorly disappear, the better. And this company is quite keen on making bold statements and appears to like to have their cake and eat it too. You don't get to respond in a public forum, play poor cards, and then expect to get off scot free.

michaelmurfy

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#1591011 13-Jul-2016 14:27

networkn:

I must say that the tone of some of these replies does not reflect well on us as a community. I feel you can state facts as you understand them, you can be critical of someone elses responses, or how they handle themselves in a particular situation, yeah I can get that too, but openly mocking, or making comments around popcorn (as one and not singling out anyone specifically) and getting amusement and enjoyment in seeing someone elses demise, it's a step too far in my book, as is gloating and "rubbing it in".

Yes you have a point here and I apologise to the community for my remarks around this. It is not often you get a thread like this and it is often easy to be caught up in the excitement + amusement factor behind it.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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networkn

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#1591017 13-Jul-2016 14:36

dejadeadnz:

You might disagree but if anyone gets an element of pleasure out of a company's obvious failures which clearly (partly) arises out of an already admitted poor attitude towards legal and risk compliance, it is judgments that these individuals are entitled to make. From my POV, the sooner businesses that handle these things poorly disappear, the better. And this company is quite keen on making bold statements and appears to like to have their cake and eat it too. You don't get to respond in a public forum, play poor cards, and then expect to get off scot free.

Why am I not surprised we don't agree here?

I'd like to propose that instead of having them "put out of business" we encourage them to learn from their mistakes (admitting is always a reasonable good first step), and conduct themselves better next time.

I think there is a difference between "scot-free" and what this thread seems in risk of sinking to.

evnafets

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#1591019 13-Jul-2016 14:38

meesham:

evnafets:

Under the introduction section, the cached version has: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 01/12/2014"

The current version: "These Terms and Conditions are current as at 18/04/2016."

Did anyone actually read it yesterday? I'm just wondering if they've added the new clauses and backdated it.

I did actually look it up yesterday, when the thread started, and found the terms and conditions exactly as quoted in the first post.
Thats why I noticed the terms linked from the WayBackMachine were significantly longer.

Maybe they did update them and backdate it, but lacking other evidence, I'm going to assume that the T&C changes actually did happen in April.

And of course I will also assume that said T&C changes were communicated to all their customers.

networkn

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#1591021 13-Jul-2016 14:39

michaelmurfy:

networkn:

I must say that the tone of some of these replies does not reflect well on us as a community. I feel you can state facts as you understand them, you can be critical of someone elses responses, or how they handle themselves in a particular situation, yeah I can get that too, but openly mocking, or making comments around popcorn (as one and not singling out anyone specifically) and getting amusement and enjoyment in seeing someone elses demise, it's a step too far in my book, as is gloating and "rubbing it in".

Yes you have a point here and I apologise to the community for my remarks around this. It is not often you get a thread like this and it is often easy to be caught up in the excitement + amusement factor behind it.

Yeah I get it, the urge to do it was somewhat present in me as well, and I wasn't singling anyone out, but rather making people aware of the view from the outside once I looked at it from a different perspective.

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