Can someone explain the '4G' networks?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Can someone explain the '4G' networks?

Mungous

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#109431 19-Sep-2012 15:32

It's hard to follow, but on layman's terms, what will the end result be at the handset end between the two major networks, Vodafone and Telecom once they both upgrade their coverage?

From what I have seen, Vodafone are rolling out dual-cell HSPA+ this year which is, predictably, twice as fast as the current HSPA+, so about 10-20mbps downlink to a handset.

Then Telecom are touting 4G LTE, which to me could mean any number of 'standards' - assuming it the same as AT&T's advertised "4G-LTE" technology - if so can we expect up to 60mbps in covered areas like they get in the States?

Thanks in advance.

1 | 2

198 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Trusted

#688298 19-Sep-2012 16:45

4G is a marketing term - as has been noted elsewhere, in the US you can get 4G service that we would call 3G.

Having said that, 4G (or LTE if we can call it that) is being touted by all three network operators.

Telecom has said it will roll out a pilot shortly (however don't expect a full network deployment next year if its CFO is to be believed. At the recent full year financial statement conference he was asked what money had been budgeted for an LTE rollout this year coming - he said none), but hasn't said what frequency range (I'm guessing it's 1800MHz but no doubt BiddleCorp will have a few things to say.

Vodafone has said it will roll out an LTE network and in the meantime is already offering Dual Channel HSPA+ (I've seen an iPad 3 getting 25Mbit/s down on it) if you're in the right place at the right time (@johnr may want to comment on where it's live). Again, there's been no announcement on frequency but it'll be the 1800 or 2600 band I suspect.

Two Degrees also has spectrum in this space that's ready, willing and able to be used. 2D tells me it's best placed of all three networks to upgrade as its hardware is already LTE ready, it's just a matter of swapping out the cards and they're all ready to go.

All of this happens before the government auctions off the 700MHz spectrum (late next year) at which point I would hope we'll see 700MHz services rolled out as well. Vodafone has committed to rolling out in rural areas on par with urban and I'm sure Telecom will follow suit. 2D needs to focus on urban at this point I suspect but don't count them out of the rural either.

Hope that helps.

Paul

PaulBrislen

198 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Trusted

#688302 19-Sep-2012 16:47

Oh, there's also this video from Vodafone about its greyhound called Metaphor.

And on that note, if you're thinking of buying a dog, you couldn't do better than to rescue a greyhound. They're the laziest dogs in the known universe and will sleep most of the day away - they like to go for a bit of a run and have some scoff, then back to sleep.

You can find out more about greyhounds as pets at the Greyhounds as Pets website.

Cheers

Paul

[Moderator edit (MF): added YouTube video inline]

Lias

5655 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3978

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#688304 19-Sep-2012 16:51

(@johnr may want to comment on where it's live).

Paul

He's buggering off to Japan in the morning according to Twitter so you might be had pushed to get a word out of him at the moment.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

PaulBrislen

198 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Trusted

#688305 19-Sep-2012 16:52

What? Who said he could do that?

He'd better leave a detailed handover document on how to reboot things... that's all I'm saying.

Mungous

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#688313 19-Sep-2012 17:02

Haha, thanks Paul.

I read Telecom said back in May it would use 1800MHz and 2600MHz in the trial with the expectation to bid on 700 later...

Basically, Vodafone launched DC-HSPA+ quite clearly and didn't use the 4G or LTE moniker. Good on them.

I'm curious to know if Telecom's "4G LTE" is in fact a new technology or just a "3.5G" style upgrade identical or similar to DC-HSPA+?

I have been observing AT&T and while they do market HSPA+ as '4G' they seem to treat '4G LTE' as an unrelated, faster technology.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/telecom-trial-4g-ck-118713
http://www.att.com/network/

(my hyperlinks didn't work FSR)

[Moderator edit (MF): added hyperlinks]

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#688315 19-Sep-2012 17:03

PaulBrislen: What? Who said he could do that?

He'd better leave a detailed handover document on how to reboot things... that's all I'm saying.

The instructions I gave him weren't very good and since he doesn't know any Japanese he might struggle to leave the airport.

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

PaulBrislen

198 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Trusted

#688317 19-Sep-2012 17:04

No worries... I'm glad to see our telcos stay out of the confusing "is it 4G or is it 4G LTE" world. That would suck.

Don't know what Telecom's plan is - they tell me it's proper 4G which I take to mean LTE. That shouldn't preclude getting DC-HSPA+ in the mean time but they haven't spelled that out yet.

Someone might like to comment on that here. Now Telecom's switched off CDMA it's got a raft of spectrum sitting, ready to go.

Paul

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#688321 19-Sep-2012 17:07

Vodafone and Telecom are both launching LTE networks in NZ. Telecom have announced a trial, but Vodafone have so far said nothing publically - one can presume they'll announced it when they have a live network rather than doing a Nokia/Microsoft and talking about a great new handset that'll be available at some unspecificed time in the future.

Vodafone have upgraded a number of sites to dual carrier which can (and does) deliver up to 30Mbps in the real world. LTE is an entirely new technology and network.

AKLWestie

650 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 115

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#688329 19-Sep-2012 17:19

I have not done any googling yet, but say if NZ end up doing LTE on 700, 1800 and 2600 MHz, will there be a handset that supports all three frequencies?

Is there any countries that have a carrier that use those three frequencies in parallel?

Publius

276 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

#696876 5-Oct-2012 17:49

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

It is apple specific but it shows how to support LTE they had to make 2 LTE models which each supports different LTE frequencies.
If you're a pessimist you'll see that LTE in Australia is in the 850mhz band which here in NZ only Telecom has the license to use.

Now that Telecom has shut down the old CDMA network they could use the freed up spectrum for LTE on 850mhz, but I suspect all NZ carriers will differ LTE rollouts as long as possible so the price of the transmitters/etc has a chance to drop, and with the 700mhz spectrum becoming available in a year or 2 which is just begging to be used for LTE, and with still more speed increases to be had from the old HSPA (dual carrier amongst others) If it was up to me id go for the cheaper option to upgrade to DC-HSDPA and differ LTE for 2 years.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#696881 5-Oct-2012 17:59

In pure laymens terms:

It will be faster than today. Quite a lot faster,but that will really only be materially noticable when doind dat aintensive things like video streaming or downloading large files.

datacaps will probably get a bit bigger too, but not by a whole lot.

apart from that, not really any different to what you get today.

Geekzone support

Support Geekzone with one-off or recurring donations Donate via PressPatron.

knoydart

904 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 154

Trusted

#696895 5-Oct-2012 18:34

As noted in other similar topics, band fragmentation world world for LTE is going to be a big problem for years to come. the 1800 Band is in the near term is looking to be a key "roaming" band, the refarming situation in the UK is playing out right now is possibly a sign of things to come in certain countries.

Long term we can hope for harmonisation in the sub 1GHz bands, but the US & Canada have gone in their own direction in the key 700 MHz, so it will be interesting how it plays out. Europe now is looking at a second "digital divident" at 700 MHz whist Africa is embracing it along with South American so there is hope out there for some traction. Mexico's decesion to go with the APT band plan last week is good news to build a large block of APT users and demand for handsets and network kit world wide.

munchkin

939 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 16

Trusted

#696897 5-Oct-2012 18:37

Publius:
If you're a pessimist you'll see that LTE in Australia is in the 850mhz band which here in NZ only Telecom has the license to use.

LTE in Australia is running @ 1800MHz; The 850MHz band is owned by Telstra, who use it for their NextG network, and Vodafone, who are building out HSPA+ coverage in metro areas.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#696906 5-Oct-2012 18:55

Publius: http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

It is apple specific but it shows how to support LTE they had to make 2 LTE models which each supports different LTE frequencies.
If you're a pessimist you'll see that LTE in Australia is in the 850mhz band which here in NZ only Telecom has the license to use.

Now that Telecom has shut down the old CDMA network they could use the freed up spectrum for LTE on 850mhz, but I suspect all NZ carriers will differ LTE rollouts as long as possible so the price of the transmitters/etc has a chance to drop, and with the 700mhz spectrum becoming available in a year or 2 which is just begging to be used for LTE, and with still more speed increases to be had from the old HSPA (dual carrier amongst others) If it was up to me id go for the cheaper option to upgrade to DC-HSDPA and differ LTE for 2 years.

Australia uses 1800Mhz for LTE at present.

While the 850 band is a ratified LTE band I wouldn't see Telecom deploying LTE there. They already have 1800 and 2600 spectrum available with a large number of devices that support these two bands.

With the APC 700 band now being officially adopted by Mexico and Nokia Siemens announcing support for this band in their Flexi BTS hardware we're in for some exciting times ahead, especially for carriers moving towards a single RAN solution.

eXDee

4033 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1070

Trusted

#696939 5-Oct-2012 20:28

sbiddle:
Publius: http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

It is apple specific but it shows how to support LTE they had to make 2 LTE models which each supports different LTE frequencies.
If you're a pessimist you'll see that LTE in Australia is in the 850mhz band which here in NZ only Telecom has the license to use.

Now that Telecom has shut down the old CDMA network they could use the freed up spectrum for LTE on 850mhz, but I suspect all NZ carriers will differ LTE rollouts as long as possible so the price of the transmitters/etc has a chance to drop, and with the 700mhz spectrum becoming available in a year or 2 which is just begging to be used for LTE, and with still more speed increases to be had from the old HSPA (dual carrier amongst others) If it was up to me id go for the cheaper option to upgrade to DC-HSDPA and differ LTE for 2 years.

Australia uses 1800Mhz for LTE at present.

While the 850 band is a ratified LTE band I wouldn't see Telecom deploying LTE there. They already have 1800 and 2600 spectrum available with a large number of devices that support these two bands.

With the APC 700 band now being officially adopted by Mexico and Nokia Siemens announcing support for this band in their Flexi BTS hardware we're in for some exciting times ahead, especially for carriers moving towards a single RAN solution.

Can you explain APC 700 vs the USA's 700mhz? I assume this is because the USA is using FDD-LTE and everyone else is using TDD-LTE?

1 | 2