100mbit upload?

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gareth41

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#111048 22-Oct-2012 19:43

Will there be any plans with 100mbit upload speeds aswell? If the equipment they're installing even allows for speeds greater than the current 50mbits advertised, or is that the physical limit?

Just wondering why they don't offer a symmetrical service, ie same speed in both directions?

sbiddle

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#704739 22-Oct-2012 19:45

GPON isn't a symmetrical offering, so symmetrical plans can't be offered if contention ratios are to be maintained.

If you want symmetrical or a 100Mbps upload you'll want to connect to a P2P plan.

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DonGould

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#704757 22-Oct-2012 20:05

gareth41: Will there be any plans with 100mbit upload speeds aswell? If the equipment they're installing even allows for speeds greater than the current 50mbits advertised, or is that the physical limit?

Just wondering why they don't offer a symmetrical service, ie same speed in both directions?

gareth41 the technology being used is GPON2.5/1 with a 24 split iirc.

So there's no reason in the domestic space why they can't offer plans with a 500mbit upload BIR.

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sbiddle

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#704764 22-Oct-2012 20:13

DonGould:
gareth41: Will there be any plans with 100mbit upload speeds aswell? If the equipment they're installing even allows for speeds greater than the current 50mbits advertised, or is that the physical limit?

Just wondering why they don't offer a symmetrical service, ie same speed in both directions?

gareth41 the technology being used is GPON2.5/1 with a 24 split iirc.

So there's no reason in the domestic space why they can't offer plans with a 500mbit upload BIR.

There is a good reason why you can't offer 500Mbps - and that's because if 21 other people on the same split were all on 100Mbps plans and purchased additional CIR you would face congestion.

Remember that additional CIR can be purchased on any plan, so you can have a 100/30 plan with a 100Mbps and 30Mbps upstream CIR.

DonGould

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#704773 22-Oct-2012 20:26

sbiddle:
There is a good reason why you can't offer 500Mbps - and that's because if 21 other people on the same split were all on 100Mbps plans and purchased additional CIR you would face congestion.

Remember that additional CIR can be purchased on any plan, so you can have a 100/30 plan with a 100Mbps and 30Mbps upstream CIR.

pffft.... the whole issue has been argumed in so many different directions on www.whirlpool.net.au that I just can't be bothered.

Any one who's interested to understand the dynamics and why delivering 500mbit BIR isn't really a big issue should check out the Whrilpool threads on the subject.

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Zeon

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#704778 22-Oct-2012 20:35

I'm fairly sure I've seen a 100/100mbps GPON on a rate card somewhere.

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sbiddle

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#704779 22-Oct-2012 20:37

DonGould:
sbiddle:
There is a good reason why you can't offer 500Mbps - and that's because if 21 other people on the same split were all on 100Mbps plans and purchased additional CIR you would face congestion.

Remember that additional CIR can be purchased on any plan, so you can have a 100/30 plan with a 100Mbps and 30Mbps upstream CIR.

pffft.... the whole issue has been argumed in so many different directions on www.whirlpool.net.au that I just can't be bothered.

Any one who's interested to understand the dynamics and why delivering 500mbit BIR isn't really a big issue should check out the Whrilpool threads on the subject.

I've read a number of threads on there. And all I can say is I'm glad some of those people aren't designing large scale networks.

GPON 100Mbps symmetrical offerings are available but nobody has chosen to offer them at a residential level yet.

DonGould

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#704785 22-Oct-2012 20:43

sbiddle: I've read a number of threads on there. And all I can say is I'm glad some of those people aren't designing large scale networks.

I'm not going to argue with you on that point ;)

sbiddle: GPON 100Mbps symmetrical offerings are available but nobody has chosen to offer them at a residential level yet.

I'm sure they're not. I suspect that most people who want 100mbit upload want to use it to do something that would compromise existing hosting provider business.

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gareth41

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#704791 22-Oct-2012 20:56

I'm sure they're not. I suspect that most people who want 100mbit upload want to use it to do something that would compromise existing hosting provider business.

running their own webhost on their home connection? I was thinking more for vpn's etc... copying files between locations, streaming for an lpfm station.

Beccara

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#704833 22-Oct-2012 21:55

If you have a real use for 100mbit then speaking to your ISP or a friendly ISP may be able to get you it, Keep in mind that this will cost the ISP another $13.5 in connection charges + any CIR you want aswell and any extra costs from the ISP for delivering it to you

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Zeon

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#704855 22-Oct-2012 23:58

DonGould:

I'm sure they're not. I suspect that most people who want 100mbit upload want to use it to do something that would compromise existing hosting provider business.

Ah what? Lol even if you have a 100mbps upload I hardly think you are putting hosting provider businesses at risk. You have a single non-redundant connection with no real SLA (which in itself is crazy). Problems potentially with CIR and ISP handover equipment for GPON (or so it seems). Besides the fact you won't have generators, UPS, security, earthquake proof buildings.

We are considering moving to 1gbps at our office on an 8 hour SLA connection but I would in no way consider moving a service based from a HA datacentre even if it only had a 100mbps connection due to those other factors.

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shanehobson

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#704879 23-Oct-2012 07:51

At a wholesale level, there are plenty of symmetrical options, including 100 Mbps / 100 Mbps CIR.
You don't even need to jump to P2P to get it.
The LFC Bitstream 3 service is fully symmetrical, fully CIR and priced from <$300 /mth for 100 Mbps. (that's the wholesale LFC price, not RRP with ISP services bundled in).

One of the reasons the LFCs don't offer 500 Mbps service on the GPON network is because of the rigorous SLAs associated with the standard services. You are right, it's theoretically possible to deliver that 500 Mbps BIR on a GPON system, but in NZ the LFCs cannot offer it because of the adverse effect it would have on other users and the ensuing impact on the SLAs.
If you're buying service on some other network (such as TelstraClears cable network) which is not subject to the same tough SLAs then it entirely possible that high BIRs could be offered (subject to any technology constraints).

And finally, it amazes me seeing how much capacity users think they need to host services, in this example 100 Mbps. I suspect they are basing this on their experience with a contended ISP service which has a headline rate of perhaps 10 - 15 Mbps. It feels slow and so they demand a 100 Mbps service for their business / hosting requirements.

I know of several ISPs who are all running substantial businesses (000's of users) and have a wholesale connection to the internet of < 100 Mbps. The difference is that it is guaranteed bandwidth, makes use of local peering and is delivered across low latency networks (fibre). You would be amazed at difference is between a $100 /mth 10 Mbps no data cap (or 'soft' data cap) service and a $1000 /mth 10 Mbps service which has no contention, low latency and high regional connectivity.