UFB - fibre to the floor or UTP - what connection costs are people seeing?

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robjg63

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#115051 12-Mar-2013 11:31

Hi
Where I work is now in the UFB zone - hurray!

I have asked the Telco we use to give us some options.
They seem a little cagey on whether or not there are connection costs or what they might be(we are about 10 floors up from the ground).
The account rep said there 'may be a cost for running UTP to our floor' and asked if other sales people have mentioned this (we have had people knocking on the door since chorus stopped digging and filled in the trenches).

Would this be normal to have fibre to premises and then use UTP or should I expect fibre to the floor?

Any one had any experiences with install costs and what cabling was used for the last leg of the connection?

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#778469 12-Mar-2013 11:59

The Govt policy is fibre to the end user. I doubt that any LFC or Chorus would run fibre to the basement and then UTP through the building. That doesn't stop other privately owner operators such as Citylink or Vector doing so.

sbiddle

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#778560 12-Mar-2013 14:40

Business UFB connections have a fixed installation cost - but this is for a "standard" install. If they're mentioning extra costs only only Chorus are going to know what they are.

cyril7

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#778594 12-Mar-2013 15:15

As others have said fibre to the basement and UTP to the floor has been common practice to date including Chorus/Telecom. Is there any issue with that.

Cyril

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#778596 12-Mar-2013 15:18

cyril7: As others have said fibre to the basement and UTP to the floor has been common practice to date including Chorus/Telecom. Is there any issue with that.

Cyril

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Regs

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#778869 12-Mar-2013 22:28

if you sign up for business fibre on a 2yr contract, you often get the fibre run up the building for free.... call a few ISPs and ask them for quotes.

we are with callplus and they have used all three fibre providers with us. when we were in newmarket, we had UTP run up 6 floors by vector. we're now in greenlane and have had both telstra and telecom (current) fibre connections. both of these ran fibre all the way to the server room.

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sorceror

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#781501 14-Mar-2013 11:19

CFH contract mandates fibre to the floor.

i'm sure chorus would love to run it to the basement and break out from there but they are not allowed to (for UFB)

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robjg63

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#781521 14-Mar-2013 11:46

Regs: if you sign up for business fibre on a 2yr contract, you often get the fibre run up the building for free.... call a few ISPs and ask them for quotes.

We are with callplus and they have used all three fibre providers with us. when we were in newmarket, we had UTP run up 6 floors by vector. we're now in greenlane and have had both telstra and telecom (current) fibre connections. both of these ran fibre all the way to the server room.

Actually I have been talking to Callplus as they offer UFB plans that are quite good.
The account rep said he would have to check with Chorus, so as others have said - I suppose it depends what chorus has as a policy as to what they charge and whether its UTP for some of it.

I guess I will have to wait and find out...

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

shanehobson

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#781712 14-Mar-2013 15:53

sorceror: CFH contract mandates fibre to the floor.

CFH mandates fibre to the end user. That means if there are multiple customers on a single floor then an individual fibre will be run to each end user. A UFB service shouldn't ever be provided from an LFC owned switch shared amongst multiple end users in the same building.

maverick

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WorldxChange

#781713 14-Mar-2013 15:55

Which some RSP's believe is a crock and a complete waste of money.... Good seeing you again Shane :)

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shanehobson

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#781750 14-Mar-2013 16:28

maverick: Which some RSP's believe is a crock and a complete waste of money.... Good seeing you again Shane :)

That point could be debated all day, but one point in favour of fibre to the end user which cannot easily be negated is that it's the only way to get RF Overlay to the end user.
If the LFC or RSPs start putting switches in the basement/riser and run UTP to the end user then RF Overlay will never work.
There is a CFH requirement that RF Overlay (of some sort, not yet defined) will work on the UFB network.

This of course will open an ocean liner sized can of worms as we debate the merits (or lack thereof) of RF Overlay.
But for the purpose of this comment I am working on the assumption that we accept that the UFB network must be capable of delivering RF Overlay to the end user.

Secondly, there are also CFH requirements around the ability of the network to deliver multicast services to end users. To a lesser degree, there is risk that active devices placed at the edge of the UFB network to aggregate bandwidth on behalf of individual RSPs may possibly interfere with the ability of end users to receive multicast services.
Again, that's another can of worms centred around how will we deliver high bandwidth content (broadcast TV (probably limited to live sports as everything else would be time shifted anyway)) to end users in the future ? RF through the air, RF via UFB fibre, multicast via UFB, free space optics, USB via SneakerNet®

maverick

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#781761 14-Mar-2013 16:49

RF overlay ,my old favourite and your 100% right the debate can get really heated. I like the argument around IP vs RF and the why overlay when perhaps it can be driven as a IP service , now there's a good thing to use Fibre for perhaps,

Actually been a ex Radio tech it feels strange to argue against my pedigree but I don't see RF overlay been the way of the future so should not be driving the mandate for multi tenanted deployments.

I would argue on a number of points with multi tenanted apartments, I have a resentment to wasting money when there is no clear outcomes from a group that perhaps are trying to set a technology path some don't agree with.

But I totally accept your comments and know the rules of the good old CFH requirements, I just don't have to agree with them though, what a wise bunch they are.

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shanehobson

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#781766 14-Mar-2013 17:03

Further,I guess the only reason anyone would support UTP over the last <100m to the end user is because it is perceived to be cheaper than running fibre all the way to the end user.

Someone from Citylink might want to wade into this debate, but I suggest that when weighing up the cost of managing switches hidden in basements or closets of buildings against fibre all the way through then it's a close call.

I suspect that when rolling out a very large new fibre network (eg UFB) there are significant economies of scale obtained and so the incremental cost of running fibre a little bit further into the building rapidly outweighs the cost of managing a switch sitting in the basement and the UPS it is attached to.

Speaking from my own experiencing operating a fibre network and having heard from other fibre operators, proportionately the largest cause of faults was power related and often UPS units.
By pushing fibre all the way into the end user premises these problems simply evaporate.

sbiddle

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#781854 14-Mar-2013 18:56

It's going to be a nightmare even contemplating deploying fibre to many apartment buildings. Running fibre (or infact any new cabling) up risers in your average commercial building typically isn't overly difficult, it's just time consuming. Access through risers and suspended ceilings makes access relatively easy in many instances.

Running fibre around your average multi story apartment building on the other hand is an entirely different beast. Individual apartments with no suspended ceilings turns things into a nightmare. There are buildings were we've deployed our own DSLAM's where fibre to individual apartments would not be possible without reverting to lots of plastic trunking!

cyril7

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#781859 14-Mar-2013 19:02

Yep, I agree Steve, and most/ALL modern apartment buildings have MATV heandends, should any RF overlay not be piped to that? I really stuggle to see any real benefit in fibre to the floor, daily I am having to sort issues in schools where Chorus ended up delivering the UFB drop to somewhere other than the core cabinet, not hard to fix without moving the drop.

If MDU's are going to be delayed in UFB rollout because they want fibre to every apartment, then I think CFH better have a good long rethink.

Cyril

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#781878 14-Mar-2013 19:18

cyril7: Yep, I agree Steve, and most/ALL modern apartment buildings have MATV heandends, should any RF overlay not be piped to that?

Makes lots of sense and would work well for a lot less money - but nobody's ever going to agree on such things and who's going to look after it.

Fibre to the individual dwelling is the only way to deliver an end to end managed service. Meanwhile a big market opens up, something I've been doing a lot of work on.

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