Bridging the digital divide

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canine

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#115252 19-Mar-2013 12:53

I have a farm business near Takaka in the tourist hotspot Golden Bay. Like many in this area we use a Telecom T-stick as XT coverage here is better than Vodafone (which seems to only work well when the booster is installed each summer tourist season). I prepay $50 for 2GB and the 1Mbps speed of my old first generation T-stick is just fine other than during Dec-Feb when all the skyping/facebooking tourist smartphones overload the cell sites. I could go to a $80 for 4 GB plan if needed and get a T-stick that would deliver ~3-4 mbps, but speed is not so important, getting a reasonable data allowance per dollar is.

I disagree that the goals/claims on vodafone's "bridging the digital divide" are being achieved...

I will probably retain my (powercut proof) telecom landline with $25 unlimited national & Australia calling deal, and buy a fast new 21 Mbps (4 avg) T-stick...

even with its eye watering non- "urban comparable" $80/mth for 4GB plan.

The "urban comparable" RBI... involves ~$700 installation, $100/mth for 5GB at ~5 Mbps.

The majority of people I know in this rural area have a landline to call elderly relatives whom do not skype etc, and they would like to pay less for a non-VOIP service. Most see the $30-$80 they spend each month for internet connection as being a justifyible amount, $100+ is not.

Where did the Goverment grants go?

Certainly not toward providing a service vastly different to us than the pre-existing XT/T-stick provides.

40+ Farms and house holds here have now joined www valley net nz...

$42/mth for 5GB at 3 mbps... That is what RBI should have supplied ideally, pity I'm not in line of sight for it.

There could possibly be low RBI uptake here as prices/caps are at present.

The school 6km away has 100 Mbps fibre. The teachers are keen to move toward online content and provide homework which requires internet connection. But many students live in households with either no internet, or limited data usage available. The Digital divide is not going away with this RBI investment.

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#783896 19-Mar-2013 13:17

You're right. Providing fast, cheap communication infrastructure immediately to every rural location should have been done yesterday.

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canine

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#783934 19-Mar-2013 14:20

Personally, after a life of dialup and then years of paying telecom T-stick $30 per month for 0.5GB at a max of 1 mbps speed but often 100 kbps or less... I'm content enough with $50/mth for 2GB and 1 mbps speed is fast enough for me.

However it is limiting when you have children coming home from 100 Mbps at school with fancy online homework. Some kids at school are lucky enough to have a connection to the fibre passing the farm gate, others have ADSL, but most are firmly on the wrong side of the digital divide at a time when there is pressure from teachers to move toward the latest online teaching methods.

Vodafone's site page titled "Bridging the digital divide" makes claims of data access and urban parity which I think we could look back on in five years and possibly say, well they didn't achieve that. Urban parity is idealistic and likely unrealistic, and not really necessary.

The RBI towers will not be built here for a while, but I'm saying there's no rush, because the pricing is not very attractive compared to the status quo.

timmmay

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#783937 19-Mar-2013 14:34

Maybe a network fed from the school would be a cheaper and relatively simple solution?

cyril7

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#783938 19-Mar-2013 14:36

Yep, sounds like the PTA project.

Cyril

canine

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#783963 19-Mar-2013 15:44

I remember when I first looked at the RBI wireless pricing on the Vodafone site it was maybe $80/mth for 5GB... now they've increased it to $100. Are they trying to put people off, or are the costs just mounting beyond forecast? I guess that's why they are now considering overhead fibre instead of trenching.

coffeebaron

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#783969 19-Mar-2013 15:54

They are other RBI providers

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DonGould

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#784035 19-Mar-2013 18:24

Where is the RBI deployment actually at?

Have all the mobile towers actually been built and those that need upgrading been upgraded?

Is vodafone backing away from demand because the upgrades aren't complete and what's currently there is now being overloaded with demand?

Are they pushing up the price to push demand away until the updates are complete?

Or is the price going up because there is no demand because the WISPs are picking up the game and more people are using them rather than RBI deployment?

Really we have no idea what's going on and I think we need to be talking to CFH for comment.

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#784056 19-Mar-2013 19:25

It's a 5 year deployment plan. Also remember it is a joint venture between Vodafone and Chorus, which includes over 1000 DSL cabinets too.

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canine

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#784090 19-Mar-2013 20:45

They've just last week plugged a big green tube into the council headquarters here in Golden bay so everything is progressing just nicely I guess. The resource consents for the towers here went in at least a few months ago and apparently it'll be 6-12months for them to be built.

I notice on the coverage map Richmond and Motueka areas apparently received RBI wireless first, hardly remote needy totally dialup dependent areas.

I was mainly drawing attention to the lofty claims on Vodafones 'digital divide' page and pointing out that the service will not be vastly different to what we already have considering the opening of the public purse.
But of course in the fullness of time there will be multitudinous ISPs vying for a slice of this very lucrative market. One of the early comers, Ultimate Broadband offers $600 setup for a $75/mth for 5GB service, hmmm 25% off vodafones base price, that's getting somewhere.

However, I think if anything the digital divide may become more pronounced. Whereas before nobody had particularly good broadband and most were suffering the joys of dial-up comfortable in the knowledge that they were in good company... now there is starting to be a sever gradation, often over non spatially significant distances. The haves and have-nots, obvious in the class room, some kids have fast wifi connected Ipads at home, others can only use theirs at school, and many grace the steps of the town library (because the wifi room is full of non rate paying tourists) slowly downloading an app or two, and another group just write their name on the library whiteboard to book a slot amongst the tourists on the library terminals.

DonGould

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#784159 19-Mar-2013 23:26

What would you like to see being done to address the digital divide?

If I could throw one million dollars on the table in the morning, where would you start to spend it and why?

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canine

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#784248 20-Mar-2013 09:42

As I see it so far we've had government throwing big money at big companies, providing large centralised solutions with expensive buy-in cost and data per dollar pricing.

A friend 7km away apparently has ADSL2 - $85 for his landline package that happens to include a fast 50GB data usage.

Our closest neighbours 80m away have 3mbps, $85 for 30GB (or $42 for 5GB) via the local WISP, valley.net.nz

I pay $50 for 2 GB, crikey.

I won't grumble, if I wanted the ADSL I could hang up my gummys and buy a property 7km+ closer to the cabinets. But the WISPs seem to be providing the level of pricing/options that we'd all hoped for when the RBI with "urban comparable pricing" was announced.

I am not within sight of the microwave tower across and down valley. If... "The initial infrastructure cost the original 10 investors $500 each", and buy-in is now ~$300... Then that offered one million would provide significantly more line of sight coverage. I have seen it mentioned elsewhere in these forums that localised WISPs were perhaps a better idea. But I guess there was about as much chance of that solution as distributed electricity production in NZ

As it is I am on the margin of proposed RBI wireless coverage, and I'm not even halfway up the valley.
One million toward extension of pre-existing WISP with its current pricing would do a lot toward levelling the field.

I was told by a Chorus technician that the UFB fibre is going to schools & council and is for broadband backhaul. It is a pity it will not backhaul the cellsites which are overloaded during the 3 month Dec-Feb tourist season to the point that on the T-stick I get ~20 kbps and dropout every ~10seconds during 8am-11pm. As soon as March arrives and the masses leave it's back to full speed and no dropouts.

timmmay

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#784252 20-Mar-2013 09:49

Why can't you use valley net? With a neighbour 80m away you could almost piggyback off their connection.

DonGould

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#784267 20-Mar-2013 10:01

canine: As I see it so far we've had government throwing big money at big companies, providing large centralised solutions with expensive buy-in cost and data per dollar pricing.

A friend 7km away apparently has ADSL2 - $85 for his landline package that happens to include a fast 50GB data usage.

Our closest neighbours 80m away have 3mbps, $85 for 30GB (or $42 for 5GB) via the local WISP, valley.net.nz

I pay $50 for 2 GB, crikey.

I won't grumble, if I wanted the ADSL I could hang up my gummys and buy a property 7km+ closer to the cabinets. But the WISPs seem to be providing the level of pricing/options that we'd all hoped for when the RBI with "urban comparable pricing" was announced.

I am not within sight of the microwave tower across and down valley. If... "The initial infrastructure cost the original 10 investors $500 each", and buy-in is now ~$300... Then that offered one million would provide significantly more line of sight coverage. I have seen it mentioned elsewhere in these forums that localised WISPs were perhaps a better idea. But I guess there was about as much chance of that solution as distributed electricity production in NZ

As it is I am on the margin of proposed RBI wireless coverage, and I'm not even halfway up the valley.
One million toward extension of pre-existing WISP with its current pricing would do a lot toward levelling the field.

I was told by a Chorus technician that the UFB fibre is going to schools & council and is for broadband backhaul. It is a pity it will not backhaul the cellsites which are overloaded during the 3 month Dec-Feb tourist season to the point that on the T-stick I get ~20 kbps and dropout every ~10seconds during 8am-11pm. As soon as March arrives and the masses leave it's back to full speed and no dropouts.

You really need to just ring valley.net.nz and sort this out rather than moaning about what Chorus, Vodafone, Telecom, CFH or the government are doing.

If you actually want this problem to go away then as a customer you have to invest your gold in the right place.

You can see where that place is, it's time to just get on and do it.

Do you need help finding a credit card provider who will front you the $1000 you need to get this on the road?

D

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canine

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#784274 20-Mar-2013 10:06

There is a tall barrier of forest. I happen to have a very big chainsaw, but it is beautiful native bush along a pristine river. Looking at the Chorus coverage map now I'm not sure if I'll get RBI either. Need another valleynet tower further up valley. Further up the road there are several internet reliant businesses, manufacturing/IT etc with valleynet signal bounced all over the show to get where it's needed.

DonGould

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#784279 20-Mar-2013 10:14

canine: There is a tall barrier of forest. I happen to have a very big chainsaw, but it is beautiful native bush along a pristine river. Looking at the Chorus coverage map now I'm not sure if I'll get RBI either. Need another valleynet tower further up valley. Further up the road there are several internet reliant businesses, manufacturing/IT etc with valleynet signal bounced all over the show to get where it's needed.

You don't need a big chainsaw, you need a little one, a ladder and some 19mm water pipe.... oh and a bunch of dad's special clips made from roofing iron to hold everything in place... and a bit of 4 by 2 to mount your transmitters on!

I've got radios up trees for this exact reason.

These radios are good for 65+ mbit/s at layer 3 and the latency on them is very low.

So stop making excuses about rivers and bush and start working this problem.

RBI is not going to be with you any time soon and you're not going to push much though that tree line in the current frequency space. Remember, as power goes up, speed comes down.

If valley net need another tower further down the road then figure that out. Work with them.

Ray, who posts on here all the time, uses the same gear and tells us he can build a tower for less than $3,000 a time.

Again, do you need help with finding a credit card vendor?

D

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