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freitasm

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#119147 22-May-2013 09:04
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Sbiddle's NZ The Home of world class broadband blog post...


It’s safe to say that the vast majority of New Zealanders think that broadband service in NZ is crap. Despite what they may think, we’ve actually got some of the best broadband connectivity in the world, and the harsh reality is that many of those with a poor service are probably suffering because they’re a) too tight to actually pay decent money for a decent service or b) completely oblivious to issues such as their home wiring impacting their broadband performance. Many people who fall into b) fall into a) once told of their problem – they expect somebody else to fix their problem, and don’t expect to pay for it either, despite wiring within the premises being owned by the property owner.


But I expect someone to suggest sbiddle is being paid to say these things...






 

 

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plambrechtsen
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  #823382 22-May-2013 09:34
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Now now Mauricio.. Just because Steve talks about some home truths and he certainly isn't on the Telecom, Chorus or Vodafone payroll doesn't mean he's not right.

I still get astonished when I tell customers their poor speed is due to internal wiring, it will cost $150-200 or so to fix but they don't want to pay for it to be fixed and want it fixed for free.  That's accounted for around 30% of the people who have contacted me

The one thing I would have said was.

The Telco community (my employer included in my on personal view) have done a disservice to the general population by positioning the Internet as "Free".  The Internet isn't "Free" it never has been and never will be.  As soon as people realise that and know that they will need to invest something themselves to get decent service the better off the whole country will be.

insane
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  #823387 22-May-2013 09:40
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I think he's dead right. It's hilarious how many people complain about service quality when moving from one provider to a cheaper one.

 
 
 
 


JohnButt
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  #823394 22-May-2013 09:45
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I strongly support sbiddle's comments. While our results suggest different numbers for performance than his unsupported sample ranges - some of his are low and some high, they are close to the mark.

TrueNet testing shows significant advantages over the rest of the world, with the changes to FTTN bringing an average measured speed of 10Mb/s for ADSL users.

Australia have a very long way to go to catch up. The Australian copper network has very short loops from the passive cabinet to the home, but the passive cabinet (APO torpedo) is usually in the wrong place for an active cabinet due to it's very small size. Economies of scale mean that the FTTN may be too expensive due to cabinet location both physically and logically.

freitasm

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  #823396 22-May-2013 09:51
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John, talking about speeds... I was using a Cisco router topped at 85Mbps. I have now switched to a new router (in test from an ISP) and get more than 100Mbps.

So how much of the Truenet tests are affected by this kind of "hardware problem"?





 

 

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robjg63
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  #823407 22-May-2013 10:20
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The most frustrating thing about the internet - and specifically when you are having issues with it (speed reliability) is the number of links in the chain.
As a customer your issues could be caused by:
Your PC
Your router
Filters
Your wiring (in the house)
Wiring in the street
Issue in the exchange gear
Backhaul from the exchange
Overloading (too much contention) on the connections.

This list passes through a few different suppliers and you cant even contact some directly.
All you as a customer might see is slow/unreliable internet.

Even for a reasonably clued up person its just about impossible to work through all of that list/suppliers when problems arise.
It would be good to be able to employ a one stop shop that could reliably work through the whole process and own it until resolved - though god knows what they would have to charge.





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


1080p
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  #823425 22-May-2013 10:48
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robjg63: The most frustrating thing about the internet - and specifically when you are having issues with it (speed reliability) is the number of links in the chain.
As a customer your issues could be caused by:
Your PC
Your router
Filters
Your wiring (in the house)
Wiring in the street
Issue in the exchange gear
Backhaul from the exchange
Overloading (too much contention) on the connections.

This list passes through a few different suppliers and you cant even contact some directly.
All you as a customer might see is slow/unreliable internet.

Even for a reasonably clued up person its just about impossible to work through all of that list/suppliers when problems arise.
It would be good to be able to employ a one stop shop that could reliably work through the whole process and own it until resolved - though god knows what they would have to charge.



This is where your choice of ISP becomes important. If you want the cheapest plan with large data cap then expect the service assistance for these issues to be degraded because the price cuts must come from somewhere.

Issues in that list you as a customer are responsible for include all those up till and including your premises wiring. IMHO you should not even call your ISP until these have been corrected. Don't know how? Call Geeks on Wheels. You wouldn't call the power company to fix a wiring issue in your house.

Issues in street wiring and exchange/cabinet gear (incredibly rare, now) are Chorus problems and must be dealt with through your ISP. They can be tough to diagnose if you haven't checked everything on your end first. This is where ISP choice becomes important. You are much more likely to receive an excellent service experience with a quality ISP than a cut price one. Even if Chorus mess about and don't get it right the quality ISP will make the experience as pleasant as possible for you.

Overloading in backhaul, contention, international transit are all issues with the quality of your ISP more than anything else. The SCC is not nearly saturated so there is plenty more capacity for purchase.

To sum up: if your kit is configured correctly and you use a quality ISP then the only issues you will face are those faced by everyone else trying to transit the wild west that is the open internet.

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  #823437 22-May-2013 10:59
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On a semi-related note, is there any way to determine what your attentuation "should" be based on your location? This calculator gives a line length that's 50% more than what I'd expect so I'd love to know whether I have a fault.

 
 
 
 


chevrolux
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  #823473 22-May-2013 11:57
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Behodar: On a semi-related note, is there any way to determine what your attentuation "should" be based on your location? This calculator gives a line length that's 50% more than what I'd expect so I'd love to know whether I have a fault.




That calculator worked my line out perfectly. 33dB came out as 2.4km with a sync rate of 13Mbps which is exactly what my connection is.

That blog post is excellent. The point needs to continuously get hammered home and somebody might eventually listen. I reckon our ISP's (or maybe even Chorus directly) should do what they did in the UK offering free installs if the stats don't improve. 

JohnButt
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  #823481 22-May-2013 12:17
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freitasm: John, talking about speeds... I was using a Cisco router topped at 85Mbps. I have now switched to a new router (in test from an ISP) and get more than 100Mbps.

So how much of the Truenet tests are affected by this kind of "hardware problem"?



Mauricio, your probe is a GigE MikroTik and capable of measuring up to 600Mb/s.  Our tests can be impacted by this problem if the probe is behind the router, with Fibre we have many probes in this situation and cannot see any impact.  With Cable almost all probes, apart from yours, are connected to the modem.

So I guess the answer is - very limited number of tests are affected by the router speed. 

DarthKermit
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  #823488 22-May-2013 12:25
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It's not surprising. The average Joe Bloggs out there uses the supplied plug in filters when they get their broadband package from their ISP, not knowing that there is a higher performance alternative available.

I can think of quite a few people whom I know, with ADSL at home, but just use what was supplied.




Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?


Ragnor
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  #823552 22-May-2013 14:13
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I agree that NZ's broadband is not as bad as many people think but to claim it's world class or one of the best in the world... you've taken it way too far.

Our broadband is mediocre middle of the pack and very expensive relative to income and relative to the rest of the world.

Some factors are not changeable geographic isolation, population density some are: domestic peering policies, regulated wholesale pricing, artificial scarcity.

plambrechtsen
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  #823560 22-May-2013 14:23
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Ragnor: I agree that NZ's broadband is not as bad as many people think but to claim it's world class or one of the best in the world... you've taken it way too far.

Our broadband is mediocre middle of the pack and very expensive relative to income and relative to the rest of the world.


On the expense, is that relative to our size median income of other similar sized and geographical countries around the world.

What about the other factors of average wage and disposable income, and geographical distance playing a part on speeds and content offered.  As does our population and geographical diversity.

If we all lived in Auckland within a 60km distance from the sky tower and didn't need to build or offer broadband any further then things would be very different in this country.

michaeln
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  #823678 22-May-2013 17:45
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Ragnor: I agree that NZ's broadband is not as bad as many people think but to claim it's world class or one of the best in the world... you've taken it way too far.

Our broadband is mediocre middle of the pack and very expensive relative to income and relative to the rest of the world.

Some factors are not changeable geographic isolation, population density some are: domestic peering policies, regulated wholesale pricing, artificial scarcity.

According to the ITU, NZ is towards the top of the pack (17th) for quality and and 44th out of 161 for fixed broadband relative to income. (I had to crunch the last one myself, the table in the paper shows us 48th overall, but that includes telephony  etc.).

Note that we are comparable in price to Korea, which I found surprising. Note also that this is 2011 and things will have changed since then, but I can't find a more recent comprehensive comparison.

Ragnor
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  #824507 24-May-2013 03:50
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The ITU "price basket methodology" uses "Monthly subscription for an entry-level broadband plan (based on 1 Gigabyte of download volume)".... so it's basically useless and makes countries with prices that rise based on data usage like Australia and New Zealand look more affordable than they are.



eXDee
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  #824684 24-May-2013 12:47
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IMO the data caps we have in NZ now are vastly improved over what we had before. 100-500gb plans are now affordable. I do think now we have pretty impressive broadband given our circumstance.

plambrechtsen: Now now Mauricio.. Just because Steve talks about some home truths and he certainly isn't on the Telecom, Chorus or Vodafone payroll doesn't mean he's not right.

I still get astonished when I tell customers their poor speed is due to internal wiring, it will cost $150-200 or so to fix but they don't want to pay for it to be fixed and want it fixed for free.  That's accounted for around 30% of the people who have contacted me

The one thing I would have said was.

The Telco community (my employer included in my on personal view) have done a disservice to the general population by positioning the Internet as "Free".  The Internet isn't "Free" it never has been and never will be.  As soon as people realise that and know that they will need to invest something themselves to get decent service the better off the whole country will be.

A possible point of argument to these customers is to compare it to a leaky water main. You will get low pressure if the water main has a leak or is dodgy. Especially if someone who wasn't qualified has come along and spliced in their own tap (ie sky installs :p).
Water when not metered is treated by some people as 'free' also, even though its a flat rate on their rates bill. But metered or not, if you want to fix the a water main on your property, you always have to come and pay for a plumber to come out and repair it. The local utility company or council doesn't foot the bill.

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