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Topic # 13405 8-May-2007 16:53
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Happening anytime soon?


Dan

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  Reply # 69954 8-May-2007 18:32
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No.


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Reply # 69958 8-May-2007 18:50
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Actually, from what I understand Telecom are already using VDSL in their Private Branch Office Service, but from what I understand VDSL causes a lot of interference in the rest of the pairs in the cable.



They use it because they offer 2Megabit Full Duplex connections and deliver it with Cisco routers over VDSL.

But if your asking if they offer it as a straight retail internet connection, no. As to when, interestingly enough should be after LLU but I don't know how Telecom are going to feel if ISP's attach VDSL and cause crosstalk to go through the roof.




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  Reply # 69998 9-May-2007 01:01
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exportgoldman:


Actually, from what I understand Telecom are already using VDSL in their Private Branch Office Service, but from what I understand VDSL causes a lot of interference in the rest of the pairs in the cable.





They use it because they offer 2Megabit Full Duplex connections and deliver it with Cisco routers over VDSL.



But if your asking if they offer it as a straight retail internet connection, no. As to when, interestingly enough should be after LLU but I don't know how Telecom are going to feel if ISP's attach VDSL and cause crosstalk to go through the roof.


I think you are getting confused with SHDSL, SHDSL has been used for some time in the Private Office and One Office solutions, maybe even Lan Link too.

There is a wholesale version of this service called UNS (Unbundeled Network Service) which is intended to replace the Frame Relay service which has entered the first stage of grandfathering (price hikes).

SHDSL supports transmission speeds of up to 2mbps symmetric on the 2 wire variant and 4mbps on the 4 wire variant. TCNZ only offer the 2 wire variant currently with Allied Telesyn AR442 NTUs.

There is no simplex of halfduplex xDSL variants to my knowledge.

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  Reply # 69999 9-May-2007 01:19
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> There is a wholesale version of this service called UNS (Unbundeled Network Service) which is intended to
> replace the Frame Relay service which has entered the first stage of grandfathering (price hikes).

The first version of Private Office was also supplied across xDSL using Speedtouch (!?!) or Nokia M1122 Routers. They moved to Cisco Routers so they could flag traffic with QoS and then charge more per xKB of QoS data (e.g. VOIP)

They also grandfathered it because it is running on the old backbone/network. Apparently the new service is running across their NGN. I should really check my notes, but I'm sure you will correct me if memory doesn't serve :)

> SHDSL supports transmission speeds of up to 2mbps symmetric on the 2 wire variant and 4mbps on the 4 wire variant.
> TCNZ only offer the 2 wire variant currently with Allied Telesyn AR442 NTUs.

Interesting, Gen i said the customer premises equipment were Cisco's, and a client just had their One Office upgraded to Cisco's. Do they use the Allied Telesyn's with the wholesale service?

> There is no simplex of halfduplex xDSL variants to my knowledge.

Smarty pants, I meant it's 2Megabits both ways. i.e. ADSL wouldn't cut it because it only does under half that up.

The thing which annoys me is how much the product is, and you are forced to purchase it because it is what broadband is meant to be anyways. Fast, reliable with a support desk which is interested in helping you fix it when it's down. Those that run branches on Terminal Server know what I'm talking about :)




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  Reply # 70006 9-May-2007 08:05
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I have deployed VDSL on a Resort, I dont believe Telecom would be deploying it in an active sense, as the previousl poster said SHDSL it the more common E1 transport these days.

In the resort case, I chose VHDSL to both drive a bunch of WiFi APs, and provide challets with wired access. As I configured it, it was running 10Mb/s up and down (profile VE-10), this is theoretically good for 1.2km on 26AWG twisted pair, we deployed it over existing phone 24AWG unground phone cabling using splitters to retain POTS services, typical installed runs were at max approaching 1km.

Its easy to deploy, the whole system runs as a layer2 network.

It can be run at higher profiles such as 15Mb/s both ways to 1km and to 2km 5Mb/s eachway.

As for VDSL2, have not seen an 2nd edition of VDSL, but I guess a revision must eventually appear.

Cyril

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  Reply # 70020 9-May-2007 11:34

exportgoldman:



The thing which annoys me is how much the product is, and you are forced to purchase it because it is what broadband is meant to be anyways. Fast, reliable with a support desk which is interested in helping you fix it when it's down. Those that run branches on Terminal Server know what I'm talking about :)



I'm still using Frame for WAN links with 100% reliability barring floods and cut cables :-)
Is the DSL stuf still rubbish (teelcom office etc)??

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  Reply # 70036 9-May-2007 15:57
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Orcon internet plans on installing VDSL2 capable DSLAMs once LLU happens, they have secured a $30m deal with Seimens and as soon as LLU cranks up expect to see some action in the bigger cities with regard to VDSL.  They are the only ones to do so though, looks like the others have only indicated ADSL2+ the same as Telecom.  Orcon plans to deliver IPTV and have secured access to 50 channels, which they plan on useing VDSL2 to deliver.  See Orcon's website to find out more about it.  Problem is VDSL is not impressive over long local loops which we tend to have a lot of in NZ but still faster than any other DSL Broadband available in NZ.

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  Reply # 70040 9-May-2007 16:49
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bondsms: Orcon internet plans on installing VDSL2 capable DSLAMs once LLU happens, they have secured a $30m deal with Seimens and as soon as LLU cranks up expect to see some action in the bigger cities with regard to VDSL.  They are the only ones to do so though, looks like the others have only indicated ADSL2+ the same as Telecom.  Orcon plans to deliver IPTV and have secured access to 50 channels, which they plan on useing VDSL2 to deliver.  See Orcon's website to find out more about it.  Problem is VDSL is not impressive over long local loops which we tend to have a lot of in NZ but still faster than any other DSL Broadband available in NZ.



Actually picking a technology to deploy with out going through the spectrum management requirements is a very big call, the speeds and distance you get with this type of technology require it to run at full power........but and this a big but running at this type of full power causes a lot of interference, this is why there is spectrum management plan which involves the technical experts looking at the output and power / interference that each technology produces and these must all conform to the standards set down , other wise you could have one technology causing massive interference on the copper lines by being over powered effectively impacting the other technologies, ie ADSL2 , wonder why the others selected ADSL2 Wink

just because they say VDSL doesn’t mean they are going to be able to run it effectively ie full power to get Max Distance and Speed, as I said big big call


these thoughts are purely my own and mine alone btw , in case anyone was interested..........





Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 70083 10-May-2007 01:14
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ADSL2+ provides dynamic spectrum management true.
You seem very concerned people are going to be stealing your thoughts from the last sentence there Mav. Laughing

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WorldxChange

  Reply # 70089 10-May-2007 06:02
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Fraktul: ADSL2+ provides dynamic spectrum management true.
You seem very concerned people are going to be stealing your thoughts from the last sentence there Mav. Laughing



nope not stealing just that they are mine and not my place of employment Wink




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 70127 10-May-2007 12:38
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maverick:
Fraktul: ADSL2+ provides dynamic spectrum management true.
You seem very concerned people are going to be stealing your thoughts from the last sentence there Mav. Laughing



nope not stealing just that they are mine and not my place of employment Wink



So whats the public position with WorldXchange and LLU - are you guys planning on putting gear into the exchanges?

I have been hearing of the smaller ISP's banding together and sharing exchange gear, or Orcon reselling wholesale ports on their gear - whatever you do I'll be glad to get away from the Alcatel gear which needs port resets far too often. The Nokia ports are much older, but still more reliable.




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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  Reply # 70131 10-May-2007 12:45
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lestag:
exportgoldman:



The thing which annoys me is how much the product is, and you are forced to purchase it because it is what broadband is meant to be anyways. Fast, reliable with a support desk which is interested in helping you fix it when it's down. Those that run branches on Terminal Server know what I'm talking about :)



I'm still using Frame for WAN links with 100% reliability barring floods and cut cables :-)
Is the DSL stuf still rubbish (teelcom office etc)??


Actually suprisingly enough, we have found One Office to be very reliable and speedy. Even during the Xtraordionary Unleashed dramas where clients internet connections started running at literally dialup speeds, and clients running Terminal Server over broadband were basically crippled, the clients which had One Office didn't notice a thing and continued to tick along.

The joys of bandwidth reservation, we got first priority through their backbone with One Office.

If you notice all the outtages with broadband, they are usually higher up in the OSI stack, PPP failures, non-routing traffic from ISP to x, email server down etc.

Not a lot of problems with DSL Sync or the L2TP tunnels from the port to the ISP, so One Office over SDSL (and ADSL) is very reliable.

The problem is they want people to pay the world for it, and they do it by breaking broadband so you have to. Smart Move to make money "You have a nice retail business, it would be a shame if your branches were cut off from the world" Let me introduce Theresa, she can, let us say, make this problem go away...





Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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  Reply # 70148 10-May-2007 13:30
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Hmm yes well there is an old adage in the telco industry "fast, cheap, reliable - pick two". This is still true to lesser extent today obviously.

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  Reply # 70163 10-May-2007 14:24
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Fraktul: Hmm yes well there is an old adage in the telco industry "fast, cheap, reliable - pick two". This is still true to lesser extent today obviously.


Which two would Telecom Broadband be? fast? Reliable? or Cheap and Reliable?

We have some of the most expensive per GB costs in the world ($20.48) we are near the bottom of OECD countries for broadband speeds (see www.layer10.com) and we have had broadband outages last year spaning over multiple days.

Also, it's things like turning on interleaving on ALL connections, which adds delays/latancy and then cranking this setting to FULL for all connections in NZ - this isn't to do with fast or cheap, it's simply a measure to cripple broadband for VOIP, adding another ~40ms of latency to your connection.

People connecting at 7Megabits, or even 3-4 don't need interleaving turned on, and certainly not to FULL.

No, It's simply to hamstring their broadband services so you HAVE to pay for One Office if you need reliable connectivity between branches.

We have had discussions with Telecom around a client which moved to Mt Wellington, and have had 200-1000ms ping times across town to West Auckland for the last year.

Swapping out Routers (Ciscos), cable pairs, ports and racks at the exchange, different DSLAM backhauls etc never fixed the problem, but Telecom tell us if we pony up the cash for One Office, even though it will use the same copper, router type, exchange equipment and backhaul they guarentee the problems will go away.

Telecom selling One Office always reminded me of the godfather, "You have a nice business, it would be a shame if something happened to it."




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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