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# 139261 2-Feb-2014 21:30
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Hi guys, how's it going? 

So basically I'm looking at setting up unlimited wireless broadband at our apartment. There's a lot of people living here and our apartment is quite big. Luckily we are smack-bang in the middle of Auckland Central as we do not have a usable phone line and as such we're looking at naked broadband options. 

I've been looking at different plans and deals. The first one that caught my eye was Slingshot, $90 a month for unlimited and a wireless modem provided if you fronted up some cash. I've also been looking at Orcon VDSL with unlimited data for $119. Quite a few of us are avid Internet users so we're looking for broadband that's fast and consistently reliable (difficult in NZ, I know :D). 

So what have people's experiences been with the various Internet services, in regard to wireless naked broadband?

And I'm also curious as to how far a typical wireless network stretches, as our neighbours have expressed interest in sharing Internet costs. 

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  # 979071 2-Feb-2014 21:47
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Most connections and fast and reliable. Not an ask over here. Only option would be mobile Data, WiMAX technologies wont run as its a very busy channel.

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  # 979072 2-Feb-2014 21:47
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You need a phone line for naked broadband, the service is not delivered over wireless.

As for wireless coverage in a central Auckland apartment building the signal will not be usable beyond your apartment due to the very crowded 2.4Ghz band.

Depending on your defintion of "large" you may need to install an additional access point(s) to deliver acceptable performance in such a noisy environment, I wouldn't plan on coverage working adequately though walls due to the noise floor. If it does, it's a bonus.


 
 
 
 


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  # 979075 2-Feb-2014 21:54
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Been bang right in the middle of Auckland CBD is not good luck at all you would be better off in the back end of nowhere,

Good luck

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  # 979099 2-Feb-2014 22:17
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Yeah, check how many wireless access points you can detect with your smartphone or laptop.

Infill housing means we have seven neighbours with houses close to our boundary. They all have wireless routers we can detect on 2.4GHz so we only run on 5GHz with one other neighbour. Even then wireless is noticeably worse than wired because it is sometimes too inconsistent for online gaming which I presume you'd have flatmates wanting to use.


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  # 979102 2-Feb-2014 22:36
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Its a nasty legal hole you are getting into.
Basically if one of your sharers kids decide to download the wrong torrent, suddenly you have copyright infringement notices that you are personally responsible for.

The only way you can get around that is if you have multiple ip addresses from the ISP- which anyone that is willing to allow you to have multiple ip addresses surely wont offer them on an unlimited connection.

Also you are probably going to be contractually restricted in using the internet service within your own premesis and they will usually say that sharing in such a way is not allowed. 

Now if you do get a small block of ip addresses that you can issue to each user on the network, it will allow you to identify which user has been downloading the copyrighted content (blocking torrents or peer to peer is not enough) and the isp may allow you to deal with the problem user if they understand what you are doing with the connection. However I suspect they will still count the infringement notices against you as the master account holder, and on the third occurrence if it goes to court, you will still be personally liable.

Motels get away with it by issuing limited usage tickets- like 500mb hotspot passes which discourage guests from wasting the data on movie and music downloads. Some will also block p2p and torrents with the goal of reducing the chance of one of their guests getting caught.
Either way, by providing a wifi service to guests, motel owners are taking a risk as a business.
McDonalds block everything except http and only give 50mb daily passes so there is almost zero chance of a patron downloading at one of their restaurants.




Ray Taylor
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www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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  # 979104 2-Feb-2014 22:42
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illusive009: Quite a few of us are avid Internet users so we're looking for broadband that's fast and consistently reliable (difficult in NZ, I know :D). 


Have you tried the internet overseas? NZ average sits in 99.9% uptime.

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  # 979223 3-Feb-2014 09:42
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At the end of the day broadband is cheap, fast and reliable. $90/month isn't much in the scheme of things if you have an apartment in central Auckland.

Starting a 'Wireless ISP' (which is essentially what you are trying to do) is a whole other kettle of fish. You need a wholesale connection, IP space, advanced routing, RADIUS server etc. Not to mention actually building the wireless network. Then there is all the legal BS like terms of use for customers and the like.
There just isn't much money to be made in it unless you are one of the established WISP's who have been doing it for years and have all the backend along with the access network.

 
 
 
 




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  # 979302 3-Feb-2014 12:14
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Ah, I see. I thought it would be as easy as signing up for broadband and getting a wireless modem to make a network like the one we have at home (though it's in the suburbs, it uses a phone line and there are only four other wireless networks we can detect, so it's not busy). Then we'd just give out the password to all the flatmates/those in range and every month get them to pitch in some cash. 

And I'm also surprised to hear that we need a phone line for naked broadband. Two years ago I was on Woosh and using a naked broadband plan in a very busy area; all I needed to do was turn it on and plug it into the computer and I got good speeds consistently. And most of the naked broadband plans we've looked at (Vodafone, Orcon Genius, etc) have been loudly proclaiming 'No homeline/phone required'. 

Anyway, thanks for the information. 



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  # 979303 3-Feb-2014 12:14
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Edit: Double post.

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  # 979308 3-Feb-2014 12:19
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illusive009: Edit: Double post.



Naked broadband just means you don't need to pay for a phoneline. But it still uses the same copper network that also carries the phoneline, so if you don't at least have a copper line into your apartment you can't get naked broadband.

That means providers like Slingshot, Orcon, and us (Bigpipe) are out of the question.

But are you SURE you don't have copper into your apartment?  Just because you don't currently have a phone line there now, doesn't mean there wasn't one at some point.  
I know some Auckland CBD areas are a bit stuck because of port waiters (meaning the exchange is too full to take on more connections) but I'd be very surprised if an apartment didn't actually have a copper line going into it at all.



If you really don't have copper, then you could try someone like wireless nation
http://www.wirelessnation.co.nz/





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  # 979309 3-Feb-2014 12:25
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illusive009: Ah, I see. I thought it would be as easy as signing up for broadband and getting a wireless modem to make a network like the one we have at home (though it's in the suburbs, it uses a phone line and there are only four other wireless networks we can detect, so it's not busy). Then we'd just give out the password to all the flatmates/those in range and every month get them to pitch in some cash. 

And I'm also surprised to hear that we need a phone line for naked broadband. Two years ago I was on Woosh and using a naked broadband plan in a very busy area; all I needed to do was turn it on and plug it into the computer and I got good speeds consistently. And most of the naked broadband plans we've looked at (Vodafone, Orcon Genius, etc) have been loudly proclaiming 'No homeline/phone required'. 

Anyway, thanks for the information. 


illusive009: you can do it that way.  If you get a nastygram from the RIANZ/MPAA/etc, though, you as the account holder are liable (I think).  Don't think we've had a test case for "it was one of my flatmates" yet.  But I think only a handful of cases have got past the "user gets a Please Stop Doing That" notice via their ISP.

I used to share internet with our neighbour in Wellington, because he could get Cable and we couldn't.  But we were both tech-savvy, and trusted each other.  I had a key to his house so I could reboot the router, and was listed on the account so I could call TelstraClear if it broke.

I had vague plans to share internet when we moved to Wanganui but don't want to deal with the tech support and "it's broken but I'm on holiday" problems.  Plus if I was sharing with randoms I'd get a router that could block P2P entirely.

Woosh can sell you wireless naked broadband in some locations.  VDSL or ADSL are the most common connections in NZ -- they run over a copper phone line.  If you buy naked service, you'll still plug your modem into the phone jack, but if you plug a phone in you won't be able to make calls. 

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  # 979317 3-Feb-2014 12:35
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illusive009:
BigPipeNZ:
illusive009: Edit: Double post.


Naked broadband just means you don't need to pay for a phoneline. But it still uses the same copper network that also carries the phoneline, so if you don't at least have a copper line into your apartment you can't get naked broadband.

That means providers like Slingshot, Orcon, and us (Bigpipe) are out of the question.

But are you SURE you don't have copper into your apartment?  Just because you don't currently have a phone line there now, doesn't mean there wasn't one at some point.  



If you really don't have copper, then you could try someone like wireless nation
http://www.wirelessnation.co.nz/



We do have a running through apartments as well as ethernet ports. There is broadband already in place throughout the building (not wireless, you need a cable) but it's exorbitantly expensive. We already pay a lot for living in such a central area which is why we were thinking of getting our own.  


I think you might be getting confused between 'wireless' broadband (where the broadband signal comes in over the air)  vs just having a wireless modem on a fixed connection.  

the difference between these two is like the difference between using a mobile phone,  vs using a cordless landline phone in your house. Both are 'wireless' in different ways. One is totally wirless, the other is wired into your house, but wireless within your house.


You can probably get copper based broadband (from either us, slingshot, snap, orcon etc) where you plug your modem into the wall with a cable, If you get a modem/router that has wireless capabilities (which most do) you can then broadcast the signal to others within range and you can all share the connection. (like the cordless phone)

I think that is what you actually want.

Tell us about the broadband that is already there - who is the provider, what is the price etc.  That might give us a better idea of what you can or cannot get.
If you name the apartment block that might also help.




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  # 979325 3-Feb-2014 12:43
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BigPipeNZ:
illusive009:
BigPipeNZ:
illusive009: Edit: Double post.


Naked broadband just means you don't need to pay for a phoneline. But it still uses the same copper network that also carries the phoneline, so if you don't at least have a copper line into your apartment you can't get naked broadband.

That means providers like Slingshot, Orcon, and us (Bigpipe) are out of the question.

But are you SURE you don't have copper into your apartment?  Just because you don't currently have a phone line there now, doesn't mean there wasn't one at some point.  



If you really don't have copper, then you could try someone like wireless nation
http://www.wirelessnation.co.nz/



We do have a running through apartments as well as ethernet ports. There is broadband already in place throughout the building (not wireless, you need a cable) but it's exorbitantly expensive. We already pay a lot for living in such a central area which is why we were thinking of getting our own.  


I think you might be getting confused between 'wireless' broadband (where the broadband signal comes in over the air)  vs just having a wireless modem on a fixed connection.  

the difference between these two is like the difference between using a mobile phone,  vs using a cordless landline phone in your house. Both are 'wireless' in different ways. One is totally wirless, the other is wired into your house, but wireless within your house.


You can probably get copper based broadband (from either us, slingshot, snap, orcon etc) where you plug your modem into the wall with a cable, If you get a modem/router that has wireless capabilities (which most do) you can then broadcast the signal to others within range and you can all share the connection. (like the cordless phone)

I think that is what you actually want.

Tell us about the broadband that is already there - who is the provider, what is the price etc.  That might give us a better idea of what you can or cannot get.
If you name the apartment block that might also help.


(Whoops, accidentally deleted the post you were responding to)

The broadband that's already there is on Telecom. I don't know the exact price they pay per month but for those in the apartments you pay a certain amount to get Internet, get a cable to plug into the ports, then you pay per GB (I don't remember the exact amount but it's quite expensive). It's quite a motel-y plan even though it's for people, mainly students, settling in long-term.

I am on the top of Queen Street, crossing K Road. 



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  # 979345 3-Feb-2014 13:28
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Are you allowed to install your own phoneline / ADSL broadband account in your apartment?  That is the only method services like Slingshot's unlimited plan are delivered (The L in ADSL and VDSL stands for Line, and is delivered over a phone line).   Then you simply plug in a wireless modem router and give out the password to who you see fit, maybe you and your immediate neighbours could get a signal (taking into account the posts above about wifi congestion in central Auckland and apartments).  The more people sharing the password to your particular wifi router, the worse it will be, especially if you are not on a VDSL or Fibre connection.

If you aren't allowed to install your own wired broadband, the 'wireless' broadband options like woosh are limited in data cap allowance and maybe no better value than what the building owner is charging you at the moment.

I also think you are confused about the different meanings of 'wireless'.  Find out if you can install an individual, wired, broadband account to your apartment before researching any other options.

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  # 980915 5-Feb-2014 18:42
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deadlyllama:

illusive009: you can do it that way.  If you get a nastygram from the RIANZ/MPAA/etc, though, you as the account holder are liable (I think).  Don't think we've had a test case for "it was one of my flatmates" yet.  But I think only a handful of cases have got past the "user gets a Please Stop Doing That" notice via their ISP.


Pretty sure there was a test case where the woman settled when her daughter was downloading music.

The info for who is responsible is here
http://3strikes.net.nz/help/at-home


Know/change the account holder
The account holder is liable, will get any notices, and could be ultimately fined by the Copyright Tribunal.
The account holder is responsible even if the alleged infringement was done by someone else using the Internet connection.

→ Know who the account holder is at your home. If you think someone else should be the account holder, for example another flatmate or an adult son or daughter, contact your phone company or Internet Service Provider to change the account holder. You may need to get a new Internet connection in the new account holder’s name.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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