Native IPv6

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mabnz

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#143050 2-Apr-2014 08:23

Hey guys, can anyone tell me which NZ ISPs offer static residential native IPv6 (ADSL/VDSL)?

I don't know that Xnet still do, and Snap tell me they don't, despite their press release a few years ago.

Cheers

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487 posts

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#1017039 2-Apr-2014 10:56

Yea, Snap are still working on static allocations for ipv6, it's not a big priority for them I guess.

michaeln

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#1017050 2-Apr-2014 10:58

Static residential IPv6? Really? I would be surprised if anyone was doing this, nor can I imagine a reason you would want to unless you are running authoritative DNS servers.

If anyone is handing this out as an interim step, they will almost certainly be migrating to DHCPv6 provision (rather than SLAAC by the way).

mabnz

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#1017053 2-Apr-2014 11:06

michaeln: Static residential IPv6? Really? I would be surprised if anyone was doing this, nor can I imagine a reason you would want to unless you are running authoritative DNS servers.

If anyone is handing this out as an interim step, they will almost certainly be migrating to DHCPv6 provision (rather than SLAAC by the way).

You know you can use IPv6 for things other than DNS right, and that most major content providers (Facebook, Youtube, Google) are already deploying services via v6? :)

michaelmurfy

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#1017059 2-Apr-2014 11:12

There is Unleash also - http://unleash.co.nz, best to contact them.

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NonprayingMantis

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#1017075 2-Apr-2014 11:27

mabnz:
michaeln: Static residential IPv6? Really? I would be surprised if anyone was doing this, nor can I imagine a reason you would want to unless you are running authoritative DNS servers.

If anyone is handing this out as an interim step, they will almost certainly be migrating to DHCPv6 provision (rather than SLAAC by the way).

You know you can use IPv6 for things other than DNS right, and that most major content providers (Facebook, Youtube, Google) are already deploying services via v6? :)

only for IPv6? Just curious why you want IPv6. surely all that stuff does work on IPv4 too?

Hoggle

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#1017100 2-Apr-2014 11:54

NonprayingMantis:

only for IPv6? Just curious why you want IPv6. surely all that stuff does work on IPv4 too?

Geekzone IPv6? You get a different logo at the top of the page :)

I've been using IPv6 for over three years (non-native) at home. Just having static IPs assigned to all my servers makes it worthwhile. This makes firewall configuration easier, and accessing systems remotely is a single-step process versus a multi-step one. There is no need to map non-standard ports to common services on multiple boxes, to chain SSH connections, or set up port forwarding via SSH.

Of course, this only works if I have an IPv6 connection remotely, so I too would like to see more widespread allocation of IPv6 addresses on both residential and business connections. IMO, it should have been compulsory for UFB deployment.

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michaeln

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#1017111 2-Apr-2014 12:07

mabnz:
michaeln: Static residential IPv6? Really? I would be surprised if anyone was doing this, nor can I imagine a reason you would want to unless you are running authoritative DNS servers.

If anyone is handing this out as an interim step, they will almost certainly be migrating to DHCPv6 provision (rather than SLAAC by the way).

You know you can use IPv6 for things other than DNS right, and that most major content providers (Facebook, Youtube, Google) are already deploying services via v6? :)

I was asking why you would want a static IPv6 address. I appear not to have made this clear enough.

sbiddle

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#1017112 2-Apr-2014 12:07

Hoggle: IMO, it should have been compulsory for UFB deployment.

What does UFB have to do with IPV6?

UFB is merely a layer 1 and layer 2 connection. It has nothing to do with IPV6 (or even IPV4) addressing. These are all up to the RSP offering a layer 3 service.

The simple reality is that 99% of users do not care, and despite what some may thing, we're still many, many, years from IPV6 being common place.

mabnz

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#1017118 2-Apr-2014 12:17

I was asking why you would want a static IPv6 address. I appear not to have made this clear enough.

It's difficult to tie A records to dynamic addresses.. given one of the only reasons residential connections are dynamic is because of a lack of IPv4 addresses, I would expect all IPv6 deployments to use static addressing. If we're using /64 on PtP links, then surely.

As to your question regarding why I want IPv6, when my employer comes to me in 6 months and asks why we've not implemented IPv6 given growing adoption and a need for skills onboard, I'd like to say I am aware of IPv6 addressing plans, nibble boundaries and comfortable with 128 bit IP addresses, as I've been using IPv6 at home for the last 3 years, and that implementing OSPFv3 will be breeze.

Zeon

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#1017121 2-Apr-2014 12:27

I can confirm Unleash have IPv6 static allocations available on xDSL connections. I have it running at home on VDSL using a Mikrotik router and its great. Much easier to connect to stuff at work as no VPN or RDP required and i can allocate my home range to be open on the company firewall. Company wise for NZ we use Orcon who have static IPv6 on corproaqte connections/colocation and in the US quadranet.

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michaeln

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#1017139 2-Apr-2014 12:35

sbiddle:
Hoggle: IMO, it should have been compulsory for UFB deployment.

What does UFB have to do with IPV6?

UFB is merely a layer 1 and layer 2 connection. It has nothing to do with IPV6 (or even IPV4) addressing. These are all up to the RSP offering a layer 3 service.

1.
Some RSPs were using PPP or DHCP to provide port identification when using Telecom's wholesale access services. Some of them did not wish to change their authentication processes, and requested that the LFCs provide a similar service. As a result, although E-NNI/S-VID/C-VID auth is mandatory, some LFC also provide DHCP Option 82. The claimed benefit is that if the LHF rejigs their network, the identifying E-NNI/S-VID/C-VID will change but the Option 82 id string wont.

Of course, that only works for IPv4, and no LFC yet offers the DHCPv6 relay-agent equivalent.

2. If you are doing multicast, then you (the LFH) almost certainly want to do IGMP snooping or you'll end up providing a miserable experience to your RSP and your and their customers. When the RSP wants to provide IPv6 multicast, then the LFC has to provide the IPv6 equivalent, which is MLD. That's why the TCF mandated IGMPv3 and MLDv2 support.

Also, because IPv6 absolutely requires layer 2 multicast, that better work properly.

Yes, you are quite correct, UFB is pure layer 2 and the the LHF should have ZERO interest or visibility of what L3 protocols the RSP is using—apart from the IGMPv3/MLDv2 requirement noted. (Point 1 is optional, and an aberration anyway IMHO). However, ensuring that the supposedly pure layer 2 service handles layer 3 protocols other than IPv4 is sometimes harder than it should be.

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deadlyllama

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#1017140 2-Apr-2014 12:39

michaeln:
mabnz:
michaeln: Static residential IPv6? Really? I would be surprised if anyone was doing this, nor can I imagine a reason you would want to unless you are running authoritative DNS servers.

If anyone is handing this out as an interim step, they will almost certainly be migrating to DHCPv6 provision (rather than SLAAC by the way).

You know you can use IPv6 for things other than DNS right, and that most major content providers (Facebook, Youtube, Google) are already deploying services via v6? :)

I was asking why you would want a static IPv6 address. I appear not to have made this clear enough.

The way V6 works for a residential customer is that they get given a whole range, at least a /64, not just a single IPv6 IP. There's no NAT.

Imagine if there was no IPv4 NAT, and you were given a dynamic IPv4 range from your provider. So everytime your router rebooted it got a new dynamic IPv4 range, e.g. 5.7.92.0/24. And all your PCs had to be given new IP addresses out of that range.

That's the rough equivalent of what will happen if your ISP gives you a dynamic v6 range. Suddenly every address in your network can change, your NAS/server/etc has a new IP, etc. It may be OK if you have no servers or services on your LAN, but how many people on Geekzone fall into that category?

michaeln

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#1017145 2-Apr-2014 12:45

mabnz:
I was asking why you would want a static IPv6 address. I appear not to have made this clear enough.

It's difficult to tie A records to dynamic addresses.. given one of the only reasons residential connections are dynamic is because of a lack of IPv4 addresses, I would expect all IPv6 deployments to use static addressing. If we're using /64 on PtP links, then surely.

BIND has splendid support for dynamic allocations.

Lack of IPv4 address is not a significant reason for IPv4 addresses being dynamic. That was done long before IPv4 address exhaustion was critical, and dynamic allocation saves an insignificant amount of address space these days. After all, you have to have sufficient IPv4 addresses to cater to the busy hour, and that's pretty well most of your customer base.

You REALLY want automatic configuration of IP addresses.

The typical residential allocation will probably be a /56.

Note that even though the address is dynamic, DHCP will probably give you the same prefix every time, until the RSP reconfigures its network.

The only time that a static IP address is really important is when you are running a DNS server. For all other cases you should be using DNS to look up addresses and dynamic DNS to load the AAAA records in the first place.

Please excuse the terseness, I have to shoot off to a meeting now.

Hoggle

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#1017158 2-Apr-2014 13:02

sbiddle:
What does UFB have to do with IPV6?

Nothing at all, but that's not the point. My point relates to spending $1.5x10^9 on a network which for most users provides nothing over existing technologies. It was an opportunity to use funding as an incentive to bring the network up to world class standards, and implement the latest technologies. Customers don't need to understand it, but furthering IPv6 deployment depends on them having it.

Zeon

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#1017163 2-Apr-2014 13:10

deadlyllama:
michaeln:
mabnz:
michaeln: Static residential IPv6? Really? I would be surprised if anyone was doing this, nor can I imagine a reason you would want to unless you are running authoritative DNS servers.

If anyone is handing this out as an interim step, they will almost certainly be migrating to DHCPv6 provision (rather than SLAAC by the way).

You know you can use IPv6 for things other than DNS right, and that most major content providers (Facebook, Youtube, Google) are already deploying services via v6? :)

I was asking why you would want a static IPv6 address. I appear not to have made this clear enough.

The way V6 works for a residential customer is that they get given a whole range, at least a /64, not just a single IPv6 IP. There's no NAT.

Imagine if there was no IPv4 NAT, and you were given a dynamic IPv4 range from your provider. So everytime your router rebooted it got a new dynamic IPv4 range, e.g. 5.7.92.0/24. And all your PCs had to be given new IP addresses out of that range.

That's the rough equivalent of what will happen if your ISP gives you a dynamic v6 range. Suddenly every address in your network can change, your NAS/server/etc has a new IP, etc. It may be OK if you have no servers or services on your LAN, but how many people on Geekzone fall into that category?

That's because you shouldn't be using IP addresses to refer to resources in your network. If you use a name, that can be decoupled from the IP addressing. People who use IP addresses just haven't thought it through and because of NAT - yes it works but is not a good implementation.

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