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Topic # 146819 29-May-2014 22:49
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Just putting this in here as it's neither the ISP or Chorus direct fault (though both have 'responsibility'?) that a local building work botch-up have killed the internet for the school I work in.... tomorrow will be the third full day without access (went off afternoon of 27'th) and isn't expected on till late tomorrow (or weekend sometime?) this is the second major outage this year (last took a day and a half to resolve)

I WAS p***ed there wasn't even a chorus/network van onsite DOING anything about it this afternoon but that's another issue!

ON TOPIC:

What would you collectively recommend for a backup solution for a small (non-profit) private religious school [i.e. cheapest feasible option] for a backup/failover internet access system and VOIP telephony]

I.E. a generous donor has donated the servers and we now run provide students and staff with  VPN access to the fileserver and school based (Exchange) email accounts.

We'd need email and VOIP services to be operable and would drop the VPN for the duration.

We ARE 'urban' enough for good cellular data signal, and I'd thought perhaps something like a cheap 2degrees or skinny usb stick with 'prepay' data (like 2Degrees 12Gb for 99) would eliminate the 'standing' costs but am unsure how ping would effect VOIP and how to reroute DNS'ing for the events duration?

Also, can a a 2012 M$Server be set to failover to this type of internet connection anyway?


ANY helpful thoughts will be gladly received!

(feel free ti pick at the gapibg holes in my ideas, but since $$ is main limiting factor here so standing costs like a sensible DSL or "Farmside/RBN" are not likely options for the board to accept :(

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I fix stuff!
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  Reply # 1056336 30-May-2014 07:17
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3G/4G backup is probably your best option.

Alot of CPE's these days can auto-switch to a 3g/4g network.

Depending on traffic levels, you could get away with a prepay sim rather than a monthly one.


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  Reply # 1056346 30-May-2014 08:52
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DSL backup i would think, You can get Vodafone naked DSL for cheap if you have on account mobile.

Cheers




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  Reply # 1056349 30-May-2014 08:55
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I wonder if automatic failover is a bad idea in this situation. Perhaps a simple manual solution would be better.

How long would it be before you noticed the system had failed over, and what would the financial impact of that be if it happened unnecessarily?






Location: Dunedin

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  Reply # 1056615 30-May-2014 15:45
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Go with the mobile backup. If you go with DSL backup you will probally be connected to a cabinet and the fibre feeding the cabinet will probally be in the same bundle as your direct fibre connection. Meaning a single event could cause both connections to fail.



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  Reply # 1056661 30-May-2014 17:27
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andrewNZ: I wonder if automatic failover is a bad idea in this situation. Perhaps a simple manual solution would be better.

How long would it be before you noticed the system had failed over, and what would the financial impact of that be if it happened unnecessarily?




Sounds interesting... what exactly might you mean by "manual solution" though?


Aredwood: Go with the mobile backup. If you go with DSL backup you will probally be connected to a cabinet and the fibre feeding the cabinet will probally be in the same bundle as your direct fibre connection. Meaning a single event could cause both connections to fail.


That was my thought too... both eggs in one basket, plus the 'standing cont' associated, although a one time $500 sounds bad (e.g. if needed to boost mobile reception) it's paid for after only 10 months of a $50 ADSL connection (which is probably below minimum for a naked connection anyway?)

Sounddude: 3G/4G backup is probably your best option.

Alot of CPE's these days can auto-switch to a 3g/4g network. Depending on traffic levels, you could get away with a prepay sim rather than a monthly one.



Yup, was looking at 2Degrees 12Gb for $99 for just that idea, just buy the package when needed, and have it ready as a backup for the next six months = setup cost+$198/year - and surely could be charged back to ISP as we have an SLA agreement (though I'm not privy to its details)?

Back to the iffy questions though:

What about DNS - is this then a manual process (ring ISP to redirect to exchange server), and \
would a mobile 'hold' it's IP for any length of time?



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  Reply # 1056667 30-May-2014 17:35
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TimA: DSL backup i would think, You can get Vodafone naked DSL for cheap if you have on account mobile.

Cheers


would vodafone (or any ISP) ever offer a charge when used not just for 'connectedness'?

e.g. charge double/triple/'casual rate' for if/when we USE the link, but not have a 'standing' monthly charge...

What does this tag do
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  Reply # 1056705 30-May-2014 18:37
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For VoIP backup... cheap mobile phones, or a couple of landlines.
Having said that, it might just work over 3G with a manual failover.

You could setup a Dynamic DNS service on your server or router, then just add another MX record and point it to the Dynamic DNS hostname. Then if you switchover to 3G, the router/server will update the DNS record and mail will start flowing

If you have got the APN set correctly (lifting the default APN's block all unsolicited incoming traffic)

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  Reply # 1056814 30-May-2014 20:10
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better to see if there is a wisp in your area, more than likly cheaper and you will get better throughput, which is essential if you are wanting to run sip accross it.

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  Reply # 1056819 30-May-2014 20:14
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PhantomNVD:
TimA: DSL backup i would think, You can get Vodafone naked DSL for cheap if you have on account mobile.

Cheers


would vodafone (or any ISP) ever offer a charge when used not just for 'connectedness'?

e.g. charge double/triple/'casual rate' for if/when we USE the link, but not have a 'standing' monthly charge...


Hi,

we cant do that, Flat rate for ADSL on naked with discount is $55 so thats nothing to worry about sitting there in the case of a possible outage. No i HIGHLY doubt ADSL copper will be in the same bundle as fibre.




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  Reply # 1056824 30-May-2014 20:19
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A Mikrotik router with a proper PCIe 3G card will be your best option. Don't muck around with USB sticks go for a in-built 3G card and you can stick a decent antenna on it.

MIkrotik can do everything required to only use the 3G when the main WAN is down. Your local LAN doesn't need to change. The Mikrotik could even email you (or it could even beep obnoxiously) when the main WAN goes down. 
If mail is an issue then is a quick, manual, DNS update is all that's required if the outage is prolonged.

As for backup with VoIP, if you standard SIP registration, the line will just re-register once internet access has been restored (which will be quite fast with a Mikrotik).


As for price... Mikrotik wins every time.



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  Reply # 1056894 30-May-2014 22:20
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TimA:
PhantomNVD:
TimA: DSL backup i would think, You can get Vodafone naked DSL for cheap if you have on account mobile.

Cheers


would vodafone (or any ISP) ever offer a charge when used not just for 'connectedness'?

e.g. charge double/triple/'casual rate' for if/when we USE the link, but not have a 'standing' monthly charge...


Hi,

we cant do that, Flat rate for ADSL on naked with discount is $55 so thats nothing to worry about sitting there in the case of a possible outage. No i HIGHLY doubt ADSL copper will be in the same bundle as fibre.


@TimA: do you have access to chorus cable maps to confirm this for a specific address if I PM'd it to you?

Also, While $55 IS cheap for a basic backup plan, it's still $660 a year FOREVER, while a 'medium priced 'setup coat of $500-800 should be sufficient for 5-10 years (plus $ whenever used same as adsl) and this is a really low funded not-for-profit school w/out ministry backing that I'm talking about here?

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  Reply # 1056909 30-May-2014 22:47
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Should have added to my original post. Go with mobile backup and signup to a plan that has carryover data and minutes. Sure you will still pay a monthly fee. At least if you have a year of no outages and then an outage happens. You will have heaps of saved up minutes and data. 

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  Reply # 1056937 31-May-2014 07:38
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PhantomNVD:
andrewNZ: I wonder if automatic failover is a bad idea in this situation. Perhaps a simple manual solution would be better.

How long would it be before you noticed the system had failed over, and what would the financial impact of that be if it happened unnecessarily?




Sounds interesting... what exactly might you mean by "manual solution" though?


Aredwood: Go with the mobile backup. If you go with DSL backup you will probally be connected to a cabinet and the fibre feeding the cabinet will probally be in the same bundle as your direct fibre connection. Meaning a single event could cause both connections to fail.


That was my thought too... both eggs in one basket, plus the 'standing cont' associated, although a one time $500 sounds bad (e.g. if needed to boost mobile reception) it's paid for after only 10 months of a $50 ADSL connection (which is probably below minimum for a naked connection anyway?)

Sounddude: 3G/4G backup is probably your best option.

Alot of CPE's these days can auto-switch to a 3g/4g network. Depending on traffic levels, you could get away with a prepay sim rather than a monthly one.



Yup, was looking at 2Degrees 12Gb for $99 for just that idea, just buy the package when needed, and have it ready as a backup for the next six months = setup cost+$198/year - and surely could be charged back to ISP as we have an SLA agreement (though I'm not privy to its details)?

Back to the iffy questions though:

What about DNS - is this then a manual process (ring ISP to redirect to exchange server), and \
would a mobile 'hold' it's IP for any length of time?


If you have an SLA, can you provider not provision a 3G backup connection for you? If I had an SLA and my net had been down for 3 days, I would be demanding either a refund of the SLA fees, or a backup connection ASAP.

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  Reply # 1059568 5-Jun-2014 09:16
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Just a note.... You cannot assume when you have a broadband outage that the cell network is an alternative.  
If the cell backhaul is carried on the same fibre causing the BB outage then cell data will likely be down also.
If the cell site is on microwave rather than fibre then it could still be up.

Cheers

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  Reply # 1060944 7-Jun-2014 16:15
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andrewNZ: I wonder if automatic failover is a bad idea in this situation. Perhaps a simple manual solution would be better.

How long would it be before you noticed the system had failed over, and what would the financial impact of that be if it happened unnecessarily?


Yes I agree. If you have to use a backup connection then it could get expensive if people are downloading or streaming video etc without realising its costing alot more. DSL will take a while to connect but useful as a backup if you already have a connected phone line for alarms or whatever (do get the central splitter/filter installed though).




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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