Question about data accounting.

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a4

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Wannabe Geek

Topic # 17074 10-Nov-2007 11:20

I would like to know how ISPs conduct data accounting;

Is conducted at the DSLAM/ISAM and therefore relates to all data transfered between modem and DSLAM/ISAM?

Fraktul

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Reply # 94581 10-Nov-2007 15:44

Usually with UBS it will be recorded from each RADIUS session, so its the data transported over your PPP session to your ISP.

a4

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 94587 10-Nov-2007 19:25

Thanks for your answer Fraktul, but I don't think I really understand it.

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.114 (my router)
2 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms 10.1.1.1 (my modem, LAN side)
3 52 ms 50 ms 55 ms 219-89-52-1.dialup.xtra.co.nz [219.89.52.1] (my ISP)
4 * * 110 ms MDR-IP03e-3-1-0.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.236.114] (the node dropping packets)
5 53 ms 49 ms 49 ms 202.50.232.205
6 72 ms 74 ms 73 ms so1-1-1.sybr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.10]
7 73 ms 75 ms 72 ms connect-dom1.sybr5.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.117.70]
8 72 ms 73 ms 72 ms hay-telstra.gw.connect.com.au [203.63.130.249]
9 72 ms 74 ms 72 ms TenGigabitEthernet8-1.pit1.Sydney.telstra.net [203.50.20.39]
10 74 ms 73 ms 73 ms pitt-tcom-r01 [139.130.185.254]
11 73 ms 74 ms 73 ms 144.135.19.84
12 78 ms 165 ms 72 ms 144.135.18.41

The theoretical scenario is that I have uploaded a 100MB file through the above routing and the 4th hop is dropping packets, causing 300% retransmitted segments (calculated with netstat -s -p tcp before and after upload). The node with the packet loss is 1 hop upstream from my ISP. In order to upload the 100MB file 300MB of data will have been transmitted through hop 3 (my ISP) and therefore the ISP would charge me for 3X the size of the file uploaded.

Would you say that is correct?

LennonNZ

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Reply # 94600 10-Nov-2007 20:42

A lot of routers will rate limit the amount of imcp directed TO the router's interface (not passing thru)

What you are seeing is this happening as far as I can tell.

When you do a traceroute etc it will send ICMP to the router to see the ping to it. As you can see the packet loss is not continuning thru the router, just at that point.

This dropped packets directed towards the router means nothing. The packet loss is not continuing.

I'v seen a few people complaining about this and its just people being ignorant on how things work in the real world.

Thanks

a4

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 94605 10-Nov-2007 21:41

I did not post here hoping to get a Telecom/Xtra Broadband Helpdesk script.

I seek knowledge.

12 months ago I was not having problems with packet loss (or on the few occaisions I did, a tracert would show where the packet loss was temporarily occuring - usually way upstream). That node did not drop packets then. Now it is always dropping packets. I am experiencing severe packet loss symptoms. This thread is NOT about that, though. This thread is about data accounting and whether retransmitted segments inflate it.

Care to answer the question? Here I will repeat it for you...
-----
The node with the packet loss is 1 hop upstream from my ISP. In order to upload the 100MB file 300MB of data will have been transmitted through hop 3 (my ISP) and therefore the ISP would charge me for 3X the size of the file uploaded.

Would you say that is correct?
-----

cokemaster

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Reply # 94609 10-Nov-2007 22:01

a4: I did not post here hoping to get a Telecom/Xtra Broadband Helpdesk script.

I seek knowledge.

-----

Attack the argument, not the person. Consider this a warning.

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freitasm

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Reply # 94634 11-Nov-2007 06:49

a4: I did not post here hoping to get a Telecom/Xtra Broadband Helpdesk script.

I seek knowledge.
-----

And I think you should b thankful... First AFAIK LennonNZ doesn't work for Xtra. Second he gave you knowledge by clarifying that the loss is not continuing and there is reason for the reporting to be that way.

I think it was really rude of your part.

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a4

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 94642 11-Nov-2007 10:11

Come on people, lighten up please. Am I being rude by asking for an answer to my original question and not accepting the topic being taken off-track into other areas?

I phrased the query in a way that could be answered with a simple yes or no, the person posting could decide whether to expand upon that or not. All I want, in all humility, is for a response to the question. LennonNZ offered some information about ICMP packets accompanied by an observational opinion with a veiled insult (implying he thinks I am ignorant). My question went unanswered.

*Steps back and takes a few breaths* ;)

Let us assume that the packet loss has been proven (the tracert I Included above was merely illustration, for the benefit of anyone with my level of ignorance to understand the question). The 100MB file is uploaded, with "netstat -s -p tcp" conducted immediately prior to and after the upload. Calculating the netstat results gives retransmitted segments of 300%.

How much data will the ISP have charged for, 100MB or 300MB?

freitasm

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Reply # 94643 11-Nov-2007 10:21

I suggest you read LennonNZ's reply again. I don't see him going off topic at all:

When you do a traceroute etc it will send ICMP to the router to see the ping to it. As you can see the packet loss is not continuning thru the router, just at that point.

This dropped packets directed towards the router means nothing. The packet loss is not continuing.

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a4

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 94652 11-Nov-2007 10:51

Assume the packet loss is continuing.

The 100MB file is uploaded, with "netstat -s -p tcp" conducted immediately prior to and after the upload. Calculating the netstat results gives retransmitted segments of 300%.

How much data will the ISP have charged for, 100MB or 300MB?

freitasm

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Reply # 94653 11-Nov-2007 10:54

a4: Assume the packet loss is continuing.

The 100MB file is uploaded, with "netstat -s -p tcp" conducted immediately prior to and after the upload. Calculating the netstat results gives retransmitted segments of 300%.

How much data will the ISP have charged for, 100MB or 300MB?

The question should be "100 MB or 400 MB" (300% added to 100 MB).

But le's see if anyone replies to this.

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