VDSL Sync vs WXC VDSL Rate Limit

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › VDSL Sync vs WXC VDSL Rate Limit

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Topic # 202011 13-Sep-2016 17:09

Just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this riddle.

Parents have got VDSL - they used to be (as from a month ago) on what might as well be a Conklin, 150m (line distance) from the serving cabinet. Their house was built in around 1890 with 1940's phone cable. I have been going through today removing all the old phone cable (really old, and corroded too) and replacing it with Cat5e.

I have done a test run after their VDSL speeds were lacking and have got from:

Download Rate: 61.02Mbps
Upload Rate: 9.8Mbps

To:

Download Rate: 72.83Mbps
Upload Rate: 14.2Mbps

on their router (I would expect DLM to give a faster speed) however real world speeds seem to be artificially limited:

Now, this speed was done over Gigabit Ethernet, their router is the Audiocodecs MP264 (ISP is WXC) and I have confirmed there is no errors on the line.

I could not get a clear answer out of WXC however do they rate limit their connections artificially or is this something I've overlooked?

----
Edit: Title updated as it is just provider specific.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

1 | 2

'That VDSL Cat'
8891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1949

Trusted

Spark

Subscriber

Reply # 1628770 13-Sep-2016 17:12

have you tried restarting the PPP session to see if it comes right?

There are a few isps who have been known to artificially cap VDSL to a given rate, normally just needs a kick in the pants to come right.

Accounting for overhead, thats close to a 50 down cap right there, Rather interesting.

8b line by chance?

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1628778 13-Sep-2016 17:37

@hio77 yeah I have. It was 50 before my work today and still is 50 so am thinking WXC have an artificial speed cap (really, need to get away from them).

The FEC error rates are right up there too. Once I am done removing all the 1940's cabling I think it should be far better.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
8891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1949

Trusted

Spark

Subscriber

Reply # 1628780 13-Sep-2016 17:40

FECs are high on the upstream, but nothing too heavy.

Likely wont notice an issue at all there, Suspect DLM might pull the speed down just a tad there and clear them off however..

CRCs are the big danger for VDSL, which is pretty clean there. MP264 should be okay for handling that FEC rate.

Also remember based off that line, it will likely jump to 17a soon. error rates will drop right down, i suspect you may cap out the sync limit.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1628810 13-Sep-2016 18:34

One person supports this post

Indeed. I am really suspecting that WXC may have a capped speed. I am not getting over 50Mbit at all. I literally have a Cat5e cable running from the ETP (overhead cabling) straight to the router at the moment more to give an indication of what is at the ETP. I have not dealt with VDSL for quite a while since I have been in UFB land for the last 3 years :)

There is a Chorus installed master filter located where the modem normally sits in the house (along with the 1940's solid core cable going to it). This has to be one of the more interesting jobs I've worked on.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

Jase2985

7775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2565

Subscriber

Reply # 1628989 13-Sep-2016 23:52

One person supports this post

i know when 998 first came out Spark had a cap (dont believe it was intentional) in place due to its infrastructure. They went through and updated a few things and sorted that all out.

was more a product of the upgrade than anything else

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1630455 14-Sep-2016 19:24

I ran some Cat5e through the ceiling out to the ETP and took out all the old wiring in the house - a task that took me around 4 hours. Also, there was around 100 years of rat crap up there (not kidding). VDSL sync is looking really good now (master filter, one jackpoint (instead of 13) and cat5e right through to the ETP).

Stats:

Speedtest:

I've factory reset the router etc with no change. Somebody (either @ChorusNZ or WXC) is rate limiting the connection which is rather annoying...

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
8891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1949

Trusted

Spark

Subscriber

Reply # 1630459 14-Sep-2016 19:30

dammn that looks really clean.

just remember, that next gen network is preforming totally next gen rates ;)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1630466 14-Sep-2016 19:40

hio77:

dammn that looks really clean.

just remember, that next gen network is preforming totally next gen rates ;)

Yep that is what I am preparing them for!

Here is some photos of the ceiling space (really was not kidding about the rat crap):

And this is what their VDSL was running through (really not kidding here either) - the black cable is actually mains power cable:

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1630933 15-Sep-2016 14:05

Solved:

Hi there

Apologies for before, you are right we do limit our VDSL to 50m(d),
20m(U), I had to check with my operations team & they confirmed it
as well, unfortunately that is a company policy.

This was after 4x phonecalls to their technical support team who said 4x "No, there is no speed restrictions" - My reply to that support ticket:

This is not listed anywhere under the product listing for your VDSL product nor was I ever made aware of this. There is no reason to be limiting xDSL connections unless explicitly stated and agreed with by the customer.

From your website:

"How fast is VDSL?

VDSL is full line speed both ways, and is around 5x faster than ADSL for downloads, and approximately 10 x faster for uploads than ADSL. VDSL can reach speeds of more than 50 Mbps downstream, and 10 Mbps upstream. Currently VDSL users are experiencing speeds that are significantly faster than the entry level plan on the Ultra Fast Broadband (Fibre) network.

Like ADSL, it is important to be aware that the upstream and downstream line speed may be limited by external factors including line quality, distance from the exchange and hardware quality."

This states MORE than 50Mbit downstream and has no indication of any rate limiting. Since Chorus have changed their VDSL product with the 998 band plan this now means that there are people out there getting upwards of 100/30Mbit however are being unknownly rate limited.

I like the WXC product as a whole and have recommended it to many people out there but to be perfectly fair doing this sort of thing without stating it in your contractual agreement with the customer, your site or anything is pretty bad.

Cheers,
Michael.

Phoned up Voyager - the move to them has started. Honestly, WXC literally don't care about customers since they were bought out by Vodafone (or - trying to exit all residential customers). It is a shame really since their product is actually pretty good, just the old "policies" are now getting in the way.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
8891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1949

Trusted

Spark

Subscriber

Reply # 1630959 15-Sep-2016 14:27

One person supports this post

minor correction, 100/50 is the max speed for a full broadcom line ;)

not surprised really that wxc went down the drain with the change of hands :/ history repeats itself.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

RunningMan

5149 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1672

Reply # 1631012 15-Sep-2016 15:09

5 people support this post

So the company policy (and limiting implemented) contradict their advertised product of more than 50Mbps downstream?

zespri

294 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 44

Subscriber

Reply # 1631021 15-Sep-2016 15:12

michaelmurfy:

I have done a test run after their VDSL speeds were lacking and have got from:

Download Rate: 61.02Mbps
Upload Rate: 9.8Mbps

To:

Download Rate: 72.83Mbps
Upload Rate: 14.2Mbps

on their router (I would expect DLM to give a faster speed) however real world speeds seem to be artificially limited:

I have confirmed there is no errors on the line.

For my education, can you tell me:

How exactly do you confirm that there are no errors on the line?
How did you measure the VDSL line before the speedtest? Where did you measure from and to?

Thank you in advance!

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1631040 15-Sep-2016 15:30

One person supports this post

zespri:

For my education, can you tell me:

How exactly do you confirm that there are no errors on the line?
How did you measure the VDSL line before the speedtest? Where did you measure from and to?
Thank you in advance!

No errors on the line can be taken directly from the router looking at CRC errors - FEC errors are totally normal for any xDSL line. As for the VDSL line before the Speedtest this was done to a server I have in NZ that has extremely good peering, to WXC's own Speedtest and to Speedtest themselves. I was also looking at my server itself during this time to see if I can detect any evidence of rate limiting. Once I had confirmed this I contacted WXC and only then did they say I was right.

Testing was done over different protocols to ensure I was right before going to WXC regarding this. And still no response to my email I sent to them...

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

michaelmurfy

Meow
8015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4006

Moderator

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 1631428 16-Sep-2016 01:12

One person supports this post

Just more wanted to rant here after doing some further investigation to the above:

I've written another reply to this as it appears to be a clear breach of the FTA due to how the product is advertised on their site and how it really is.

If you take a look Here (Google Drive link) it clearly states "ADSL/VDSL speeds are maximum available at your location." with no indication of a (confirmed) 24/7 rate-limit. I've been running tests on their connection for the past month when I suspected there was rate limiting, or a problem with their line. This also is not stated in the T&C's (confirmed on both the archived version of the page when I signed up, or on their current T&C's). Here is also an archived version of the product when I signed up (initially on ADSL with the plan to move to VDSL).

That, and also the fact WXC (or Vodafone - not sure anymore) are not being at-all transparent of this is one of the reasons I am moving to Voyager who are pretty awesome people to deal with over the phone I must add. I would move to BigPipe however need an all-in-one VoIP + Internet solution that just works.

This isn't the first problem I have had - I've also had an instance where WXC wanted to charge me $5/mo to block outbound 0900 (a feature free from every other provider) and also the fact they were wanting to charge me a contract break fee to move to VDSL when they had a speed guarantee when I originally signed up + their inability without Chorus's help (from me - yes, they even asked me to ask Chorus directly) to actually provide VDSL.

Another perfectly good ISP destroyed by Vodafone... Also potentially something else for @dejadeadnz to comment on.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
A quick guide to picking the right ISP | The Router Guide | Community UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
8891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1949

Trusted

Spark

Subscriber

Reply # 1631847 16-Sep-2016 16:54

It truely is a shame, i was at wxc a year before vodafone gobbled it up and it was an ammazing place. had that real we are small enough that we care, and such feeling to it all.

Suspect if i walked in that door today i would feel totally different..

that fact that they limit to 50/20 is just absurd, you cant even claim it was limits in-place from 997 since 20 up was impossible to obtain!

The fact that it took you so much effort to have such a simple question answered is rather disappointing.. Surely that's an answer front line support should be able to rattle off their bat straight away.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

1 | 2