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zar



81 posts

Master Geek
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# 20678 2-Apr-2008 21:09
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Ok, we run an email server from our TC connection, how come friends on xtra can't recieve our email? even tho we have put spf records in the dns server, not even a failure notice from xtra? seems it is "lost" 

Hard to diagnose a prob, when email is logged as sent, and then nothing heh.. any ideas?

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425 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120617 2-Apr-2008 22:24
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I have customers running Exchange server (SBS2003) on a TC connection with the same problem. 

I kind of got around it by creating another SMTP connector in Exchange to direct e-mail destined for the xtra.co.nz domain via TC's SMTP server.  It seems to work, but as you say, with no NDR from Xtra and the Exchange logs showing the message as successfully sent (which it is), it's pretty hard to be sure if the message reached its destination or not.

It seems however that the problem is with Xtra. There's been heaps of stuff written about Xtra's e-mail issues lately, see the last couple of  issues of Computerworld for example.  There has been some suggestion that the e-mail may be ending up in the Xtra users spam folder on the Xtra servers.  As most POP3 clients only download the content of the inbox the user never sees the messages that are sitting in their spam folder unless they log on via webmail.

It's anybody's guess when/if Xtra will sort the problem out.


637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120620 2-Apr-2008 22:35
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The best thing you can do is relay all outgoing mail through your ISP's SMTP server.  It will become increasingly difficult for people on consumer grade services to send SMTP reliably due to RBLs and spam scoring.

Xtra are well known for not accepting mail from smaller source sites; but will be more likely to accept it from your ISP's mailserver.  It's much better for you (and your email recipients) if you relay your mail this way.

Other options:

1. Spend an incredible amount of time and frustration trying to get Y!X to accept your mail.  You'll almost certainly not succeed unless you're sending thousands of [legit] messages a day.
2. Tell your email recipients to check their spam folders religiously and learn-as-ham legitimate mail.
3. Tell your email recipients to move away from Xtra.
4. Shift your mail off your own server and onto an ISP server (or gmail or ...); or invest in colocating a mail server or ensuring you are free of all RBLs and your reputation is 'good'.


 
 
 
 


zar



81 posts

Master Geek
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  # 120621 2-Apr-2008 22:40
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Yes, I did look at all those options, and your probably right, despite, i just spent over an hour on the phone to Xtra and they themselves have no idea why email from just not my site, but other sites wont get to them, and with no NDRs .. just disappears!

637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120623 2-Apr-2008 22:45
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zar: Yes, I did look at all those options, and your probably right, despite, i just spent over an hour on the phone to Xtra and they themselves have no idea why email from just not my site, but other sites wont get to them, and with no NDRs .. just disappears!

Xtra don't have visibility into the mail platform operations - only Yahoo! do.  Xtra will generally not be able to give an intelligent response to this problem.

You won't get a non-delivery report because it was delivered: to a spam filter (or a blackhole).  Bouncing based on detected spam is generally a bad idea, so few people will do it.

Reasonably high bet that if your recipients logged into the Y!X bubble and checked their Spam folder, they would find your email.

zar



81 posts

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Inactive user


  # 120624 2-Apr-2008 22:53
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Yeh i know that, they dont even operate their own mail servers anymore.

But hell im just trying to send an email from one email box to another! is that beyond our current technology? have we come to a standard where one local nzer can no longer send an email to another nzer that is not routed through usa?

answer me this? local nz email is now going to usa and back!

637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120627 2-Apr-2008 23:06
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zar: Yeh i know that, they dont even operate their own mail servers anymore.

But hell im just trying to send an email from one email box to another! is that beyond our current technology? have we come to a standard where one local nzer can no longer send an email to another nzer that is not routed through usa?

answer me this? local nz email is now going to usa and back!

The Y! mail cluster that Xtra is hosted on is located in Sydney, so it's not going to the USA.

It has nothing to do with current technology - it has everything to do with (overly) sensitive spam filtering due to the ridiculously high volume of it; an outsource agreement; and emails originating from unknown and therefore untrusted mailservers.

Your best option is to relay your mail through your ISP.  Originating mail from your own server does not add any significant value.

245 posts

Master Geek


  # 120633 2-Apr-2008 23:41
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PenultimateHop:
zar: Yeh i know that, they dont even operate their own mail servers anymore.

But hell im just trying to send an email from one email box to another! is that beyond our current technology? have we come to a standard where one local nzer can no longer send an email to another nzer that is not routed through usa?

answer me this? local nz email is now going to usa and back!

The Y! mail cluster that Xtra is hosted on is located in Sydney, so it's not going to the USA.


Yes, but the mail traffic leaves NZ & goes to the US & Then it goes from the US to Sydney, as far as I can understand how the Telcome network works at the moment.


 
 
 
 


637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120634 2-Apr-2008 23:49
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stu28:
Yes, but the mail traffic leaves NZ & goes to the US & Then it goes from the US to Sydney, as far as I can understand how the Telcome network works at the moment.

No.  The traffic goes directly from New Zealand to Australia; unless there are routing anomolies.  There is no requirement for it to go via USA.

Looking at a handy Telecom connection, it goes directly to Australia. RTT is <30msec.

zar



81 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 120635 2-Apr-2008 23:51
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This was not just traffic from my inhouse server, we tested from various sites, it all goes to USA and back, even the xtra 'drone' was stupified.

637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120636 2-Apr-2008 23:54
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zar: This was not just traffic from my inhouse server, we tested from various sites, it all goes to USA and back, even the xtra 'drone' was stupified.

Can you quantify "goes via the USA and back"?  Perhaps if TCL is seeing the best path via USA there's a possibility of traffic tromboning that way, but the Y! mail servers themselves sit in an Equinix datacenter in Sydney.  There is no requirement for the traffic to go via the USA whatsoever.

Certainly from a couple of handy test connections I can see the traffic go directly Auckland->Sydney.

zar



81 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  # 120637 2-Apr-2008 23:59
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yA i know this, it was strange, and email were just disappearing.. it seems to be fine now. I'd look into it further but meh, i've spent enuf on this prob already tonite, maybe someone *** up the routing or something for an hour back like at wat 8pm. Sorry to be a pain. Sounds like XXtrra faultage to me... but meh


3889 posts

Uber Geek


  # 120691 3-Apr-2008 12:12
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I found exactly the same problem as you're all talking about.

I relay mail via smtp.clear.net.nz

This morning I'm having problems with TC's mail system as well...


Reporting-MTA: dns;smtp3.clear.net.nz (tcp-daemon)

Original-recipient: rfc822;XXXX@babyonthemove.co.nz
Final-recipient: rfc822;XXXX@babyonthemove.co.nz
Action: failed
Status: 5.4.4 (Illegal host/domain name found)
The domain is valid.

Cheers Don




Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 120699 3-Apr-2008 12:37
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DonGould: domain is valid.


I'm afraid it isn't:

% New Zealand Domain Name Registry Limited
% Users confirm on submission their agreement to all published Terms
%
version: 1.23.0
query_datetime: 2008-04-03T12:36:29+13:00
domain_name: babyonthemove.co.nz
query_status: 210 PendingRelease
domain_dateregistered: 1999-09-02T00:00:00+12:00
domain_datebilleduntil: 2008-09-02T00:00:00+12:00
domain_datelastmodified: 2008-04-03T10:57:05+13:00
domain_datecancelled: 2008-04-03T10:57:05+13:00
domain_delegaterequested: yes


Note the query_status of "210 PendingRelease" -- the domain expired this morning at 10:57am.  The owner of the domain will need to renew it (within 90 days, or it will be released back to the available pool).

3889 posts

Uber Geek


  # 120704 3-Apr-2008 12:49
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Crap!  Thanks for spotting that. 

Cheers Don




Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


61 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

  # 120707 3-Apr-2008 13:00
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I'd have to say that Xtra/Yahoo! spam filtering isn't overly sensitive, it's just incompetent.
I get at least as much spam as I did under the old Xtra regime (which was actually very good at blocking spam, except when we had that patch with the "Pump 'n Dump" stock spammers), except now I have to have all the suspected spam delivered to my inbox as well so I can weed out the legitimate emails that inevitably wind up there (several a day).

Something else I've noticed: in addition to the usual nauseating nonsense and phishing schemes, I get a lot of spam for certain narrow classes of garbage (esp. fake watches, fake watches and fake watches), which doesn't equate to the generality of spam I see on other accounts.
Which to me suggests that either the Yahoo! email user list is poorly secured, or they've sold it to spammers.

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