Can Chorus remove its copper network from my house without permission?

Hi all,

We have been trying to connect to fibre for 11 months. It's not going well.

Chorus has said that one of the issues concerns the stability of a pole on my private property. Chorus has previously stated that it owns the affected pole and came around on Friday with my permission to repair it. However, when I got home from work the pole was untouched but the copper network had been removed from it and the wire cut at the the ETP on my house.

I'm currently served by the HFC network so I still have service but given I may never be able to get fibre I resent loosing the redundancy of the copper network and don't consider that I gave permission for its removal. In addition I note that section 125 of the Telecomunications Act allows Chorus to enter my property to inspect and repair things, but not to remove them.

Should this have happened?

Cheers.

You don't own up to ETP and is part of the ChorusNZ network so they can do with it what they like

Linux

I thought that was the case re ownership of the network. But what about the legal right to enter my property to remove it? If that right isn't conferred through the Act and I haven't given my consent, where does it's authority come from?

You could look at doing an underground install for UFB. They have a process for this. It won't be free

OHUG installs are changing

Change Notification 94: 19 January 2017

Customers with overhead copper requesting an underground fibre install, now enjoy a more streamlined process.

What's happening?

We’re making the process more efficient for overhead-to-underground (OHUG) fibre installations. Going forward, your customers’ requests will be created, reviewed and completed by the same team – all on one order. This ensures they’ll get a faster, better customer experience. Please forward this Informer internally, so your team’s aware.

What's the detail?

Requests will now follow this process:

Once a scope’s completed, the technician lets us know that an underground install’s preferred by your customer. We create a Design/Build task.
Once the OHUG design has been completed, a quote is loaded into the order in Chorus Portal (or Wireline). You’ll then need to check with your customer and accept or reject the quote - as you’ll be billed if the OHUG build proceeds. The quote will be valid for 90 days.
If…

the quote’s rejected, you’ll have 7 calendar days to confirm order cancellation or ask us to proceed with an aerial installation. If an aerial installation is requested, either you or our install support team needs to book an installation date with your customer. If we haven’t heard from you within 7 calendar days, we’ll cancel the order.
the quote’s accepted, the OHUG build will be completed and the order will progress from Design/Build into Held-Schedule Install status. This allows either you or our install support team to book an installation date with your customer.
we receive no response on the quote within 90 days, the order will be cancelled.

Myself: I thought that was the case re ownership of the network. But what about the legal right to enter my property to remove it? If that right isn't conferred through the Act and I haven't given my consent, where does it's authority come from?

What part of section 125 do you think doesn't give Chorus the legal right to remove unused copper as part of routine network maintenance or repair? it's not your network and belongs to them.

125 Rights of entry to land

Subject to section 126, a network operator may—

(a)

enter land for the purpose of gaining access to any existing works or existing lines owned by the operator; and

(b)

perform any act or operation necessary for the purpose of inspecting, maintaining, or repairing those works or lines.

I guess it comes down to whether a court would accept that removal of a line constitutes maintenance of that line. I would wager that it wouldn't. In reality this is an academic question only, I'm unlikely to escalate this but was suprised it was removed without warning. It also means that Chorus no longer has the option to use it as a draw wire to haul fibre up the to my house if I am able to get fibre connected.

Cheers,

Is that Chorus pole used for any other services or customers? As if it is no longer used for anything, Chorus might remove it. And then you might be able to get a free underground install.

In assuming that the Chorus copper cable that was removed was an aerial cable? So surely they could easily string up aerial fibre when the pole is replaced.

As for removing the copper, If you had an active service on it my understanding is that Chorus are not allowed to disconnect it as long as you keep complying with your side of the contract (keep paying the bills). As copper is a regulated service still. Old rules dating back to when Telecom was sold in the early 1990s, to force them to keep offering copper services to anyone who wants them. Even in remote rural areas. Although it is purposed in 2020 to remove those regulations in UFB areas. But by disconnecting from copper you have given up those old rights. Part of the reason for this system existing is due to lots of Chorus owned cables and poles being on or crossing over private property. Yet there are mostly no formal easements allowing them to be there.

Imagine how annoyed you would be if Chorus or the local lines company showed up one day and started installing new cables across your property to supply a neighbour without your permission. And they then said that because there used to be a cable there that was removed 20 years ago. They still have the right to dig up your land or spoil your view with ugly aerial cables. All without having to pay any compensation to you. The government had to balance rights of individual landowners with what rights they would grant a privately owned company to continue operating their private network on other peoples land that they use to make a profit from.

Similar rights exist with the electricity network. If you have power connected to a remote property that was connected before the 1993 electricity reforms. Don't ever get it disconnected. As the lines company may refuse to reconnect you again.

Please post more detail about your situation.

Myself

Linux

Myself

atomeara

sbiddle

(a)

(b)

Myself

Aredwood