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tonyhughes

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#21843 8-May-2008 14:52
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http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/griffins-tech-blog/2008/5/8/isenbergs-internet-nightmare-why-nz-broadband-sucks/?c_id=1501198

Bring on stupid data connections!!







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maverick
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  #129393 8-May-2008 15:44
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I liked this article and the way this guy thinks....Ban the Copper and Go the Fibre.........Maybe National have got the right idea and you would then have to say Telecom as well since they are only putting in Fibre for all new subdivisions Wink.

We have some Fibre to Home live now and let me tell you copper should be banned Laughing




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cyril7
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  #129407 8-May-2008 16:04
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So Mavrick what type of transit times and throughput rates are your customers getting. Obviuosly the local reticulation is 2.4Gb/s for 32 or 64 subs (what split ratio is Telecom using) but what level of agregation to the sub division is being provisioned. Obviously if you are under NDA we accept you must stay mum.

Cyril

 
 
 
 


eXDee
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  #129412 8-May-2008 16:26
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This guy should have been made ceo of telecom/communications minister.

PenultimateHop
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  #129413 8-May-2008 16:27
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Articles like this make me despair sometimes.

Fibre is cheap. Fibre allows for a lot of bandwidth.  We get it. You are preaching to the choir. You are years behind us in accepting that.

But speaking as a technology focused person that works to design and deploy large networks, there is more than just fibre to a network!

How much to the access networks cost?
How much do those 10GE interfaces cost to aggregate those access networks?
How much do those chassis to drive the 10GE interfaces cost?
How much do those 40G interfaces cost, when your 10GE interfaces are no longer big enough?
How much does DWDM cost, when your national fibre runs of X pairs (or even site to site runs) are no longer big enough?
e.t.c.

The stupid network assumes infinite money to pay for the throughput requirements; which is never the case.  There is always finite money, and that money will derive the constraints of the network.  Some of those constraints require putting intelligence back in to the network to ensure that 'stupid' (LOLCATS) traffic doesn't destroy the experience of 'non-stupid' (111) traffic.

'Classic' FTTH is an entirely different (and difficult) problem to manage, since how do you ensure open access mechanisms to it? I have seen some interesting debate recently on various mailing lists (InternetNZ et al) about this, including the National and Labour approaches.

cyril7
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  #129414 8-May-2008 16:34
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'Classic' FTTH is an entirely different (and difficult) problem to manage, since how do you ensure open access mechanisms to it? I have seen some interesting debate recently on various mailing lists (InternetNZ et al) about this, including the National and Labour approaches.


Good point, and there are even more interesting questions regarding the future probabilty of unbundling a PON,s especially if its been drop or deep split. Would a telco investing in PONs today be required to ensure it can be unbundled in the future, this could/might add significantly to the cost.

Cyril

PenultimateHop
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  #129439 8-May-2008 18:24
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cyril7: Good point, and there are even more interesting questions regarding the future probabilty of unbundling a PON,s especially if its been drop or deep split. Would a telco investing in PONs today be required to ensure it can be unbundled in the future, this could/might add significantly to the cost.
Bingo! As soon as you have an incumbent (FiberNetCo or TNZ or whoever else) offering FTTH, you have to consider how to Wholesale that.  This is about as opposite from the 'stupid network' as you can get.

maverick
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  #129570 9-May-2008 06:19
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Not saying that this will be easy, it won't be technically there will be a lot of challenges but as a Technology choice between Copper and Fiber it's a no brainer, how you deploy that and costings is a different story and will take a lot of hard work, but just because it's difficult doesn't mean we shouldn't attack the issue with gusto, we want to be looking forward not always looking back we need to be leaders and not followers who always trying to catch up or complaining about our lack of infrastructure which we seem to be doing daily in NZ nowadays.

I also think that you need to look at the operational separation of our largest Telco and what does this actually mean and I think you may be missing something here, they are entering a brave new world along with the other service providers, realistically only Telecom, TelstarClear and maybe Vodafone in the future will have the financial muscle to deploy these types of networks in large scale rollouts. so how do you get better services through this...wholesale the pipes. Pretty much this is what operational separation brings to the table ,

Telecom Retail has to buy services from the network supplier just like everyone else no more predatory pricing each business now has to compete, this also means that the way to grow the business is through your wholesale network thats what Telecom has now a wholesale business and to grow it they need to sell it, Telecom I believe will want to grow it's wholesale side as it's a key driver for them to grow the business, Paul Reynolyds was hugely successful in building BT's wholesale market which turned BT around.....Pretty good reason I think why they were so keen on bringing him into the mix here.

As a service provider what I would like is a wholesale product that I can offer my services to a customer, what would I rather have, a fiber connection or a copper connection where I know I may have constraints on what product and services I can deliver down this technology I know what I would be looking at , also when I look for wholesale access product offerings I will look to the future not the past, don't get me wrong here DSL2 is a nice long overdue upgrade and we will be happy to have it and wholesale it but it's not the end game and it's a little bit late, technology has moved past this so for us LLU was never a good option having seen the difference between a fiber connected home and a dsl connected home.....I'm telling you it's no brainer and if the future government has got a think "big strategy" in place to bring this to the market in a shorter time frame I welcomer that with open arms.....I also will have a lot more work to do.

Cyril....cant tell you to much just the initial wholesale offering which is 30/6 .... pulling local 1.5 Gb files in under 6 minutes I think.Cool





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PenultimateHop
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  #129628 9-May-2008 11:54
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maverick: Not saying that this will be easy, it won't be technically there will be a lot of challenges but as a Technology choice between Copper and Fiber it's a no brainer, how you deploy that and costings is a different story and will take a lot of hard work, but just because it's difficult doesn't mean we shouldn't attack the issue with gusto, we want to be looking forward not always looking back we need to be leaders and not followers who always trying to catch up or complaining about our lack of infrastructure which we seem to be doing daily in NZ nowadays.

Maverick, I think we are in agreement - although you appear to have gone off on an unrelated tangent.

The problem with everything you have said is that it is the opposite of the stupid network.  This is why the stupid network won't work - because the network stupidity isn't possible in an environment where you must do things like wholesale services on a single infrastructure.

As for fibre vs. copper, as I said, he (and you) are preaching to the choir. I don't think anyone has ever disputed that fibre is the ultimate goal.

maverick
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  #129633 9-May-2008 12:02
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PenultimateHop:
maverick: Not saying that this will be easy, it won't be technically there will be a lot of challenges but as a Technology choice between Copper and Fiber it's a no brainer, how you deploy that and costings is a different story and will take a lot of hard work, but just because it's difficult doesn't mean we shouldn't attack the issue with gusto, we want to be looking forward not always looking back we need to be leaders and not followers who always trying to catch up or complaining about our lack of infrastructure which we seem to be doing daily in NZ nowadays.

Maverick, I think we are in agreement - although you appear to have gone off on an unrelated tangent.

.



I tend to do that a lot Innocent..the subject matter is dear to my heart and is also very diverse with a huge amount of factors to consider as well.




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