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freitasm

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#243071 26-Nov-2018 08:46
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Just received:

 

 

The Commerce Commission is seeking feedback on the consumer protections and proposed process that will regulate when Chorus can stop providing copper-based voice and broadband services in areas where fibre broadband is available.

 

“As fibre services become available across most areas in New Zealand, consumers are likely to make the switch from copper to fibre, making the copper network more costly for Chorus to maintain. Recent legislative changes will therefore allow Chorus to transition the remaining copper consumers to fibre from 2020,” Telecommunications Commissioner Dr Stephen Gale said.

 

“There are consumer protections built into this process. To ensure consumers are not disadvantaged, we will be developing a copper withdrawal code that sets out the rules that must be followed before Chorus can stop providing copper services in neighbourhoods where fibre is available.”

 

For example, the code will require that before the copper service can be withdrawn an equivalent fibre service is readily available at no additional cost to the consumer. Chorus will also have to provide information about available fibre services and give adequate notice of the withdrawal.

 

Chorus cannot stop providing these copper services until it meets all the consumer protections that will be in the copper withdrawal code. One further component will be a ‘Commission 111 contact code’ that will require retailers to ensure that ‘vulnerable consumers’ have—at no cost—an appropriate means of contacting 111 for emergency services in the event of a power outage.

 

The earliest Chorus can stop providing copper services will be 1 January 2020 – and only once all the conditions are met.

 

The Commission wants to hear from industry participants as well as consumer groups on its proposed approach to identifying the areas where fibre services are clearly available and if there are any additional provisions the Commission should include in the copper withdrawal code.

 

Submissions on the fibre areas process and issues paper close on 8 February 2019.

 

Submissions on the copper withdrawal code close on 14 February 2019. Cross-submissions on the copper withdrawal code close on 6 March 2019.

 

The Commission will provide an update on its process for the Commission 111 contact code before the end of the year.

 

Further information, including the papers released today, can be found on the Commission’s website.

 

Background

 

Under amendments to the Telecommunications Act 2001 passed earlier this month, the Commission is required to determine the initial geographic areas of New Zealand where fibre services are available to consumers by 1 January 2020. These areas will be known as specified fibre areas. Once identified as a specified fibre area, Chorus will be able to stop providing copper services in them, e.g. VDSL and ADSL broadband and the services it sells to support retail service providers providing voice services.

 

Traditionally broadband is delivered over a copper phone line. Fibre broadband uses fibre-optic cables directly to the home, capable of speeds much faster than copper.

 





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BarTender
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  #2134156 26-Nov-2018 09:12
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This seems nuts that the potential of one customer would prevent switching off the copper network in a particular region if everyone else has been moved off.

 

Or worse still Chorus have to get into the game of providing UPSs for these customers with the whole battery lifecycle issue and onus on the vulnerable individual to make sure they keep the batteries charged.

 

And what about non Chorus LFC areas. If Chorus want to withdraw copper in Christchurch for example and Enable (or UFF or Northpower) doesn't have a similar UPS offering what happens then.

 

I would also expect there to be similar legislation come out for the providers of health equipment to transition away from POTS services onto Mobile and have those providers support the equipment including battery lifecycle management. As these will be high touch customers anyway from the health providers point of view ensuring they adequately maintain the batteries.




MikeAqua
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  #2134162 26-Nov-2018 09:30
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One further component will be a ‘Commission 111 contact code’ that will require retailers to ensure that ‘vulnerable consumers’ have—at no cost—an appropriate means of contacting 111 for emergency services in the event of a power outage.

 

In the absence of a fibre network wouldn't require an ONT and a phone of some sort and a UPS - all at no cost to the consumer.

 

I'm assuming vulnerable consumers means people on limited incomes (e.g. pensioners with no other income).

 

That's potentially quite a number of free installs.

 

 





Mike


nickb800
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  #2134168 26-Nov-2018 09:41
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Vulnerable could be defined tighter, e.g medically dependent like power companies have had to for a while.

 

Given the cost, both upfront and ongoing, for a UPS, I wonder if it would be cheaper for Chorus to pay an RSP to provide a cheap prepay mobile phone for 111 calls. They wouldn't need credit per se, just an arrangement for the connection to stay active even if not topped up every 12 months. Also wonder if the proposed code would allow for that. 




wellygary
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  #2134169 26-Nov-2018 09:41
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MikeAqua:

 

One further component will be a ‘Commission 111 contact code’ that will require retailers to ensure that ‘vulnerable consumers’ have—at no cost—an appropriate means of contacting 111 for emergency services in the event of a power outage.

 

In the absence of a fibre network wouldn't require an ONT and a phone of some sort and a UPS - all at no cost to the consumer.

 

I'm assuming vulnerable consumers means people on limited incomes (e.g. pensioners with no other income).

 

That's potentially quite a number of free installs.

 

 

No its not as extensive as that, , - I'm guessing it will end up being similar to those who are listed by power companies as vulnerable...

 

232A Commission 111 contact code

 

(5)  In this section,—

 

"vulnerable consumer means a consumer of a specified telecommunications service who—

 

 

(a) is at particular risk of requiring the 111 emergency service (for example, due to a known medical condition); and

 

 

 

(b) does not have a means for contacting the 111 emergency service that can be operated for the minimum period in the event of a power failure.

 

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2017/0293/latest/whole.html#LMS111362

 


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  #2134192 26-Nov-2018 10:03
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This document merely throws up issues again that the Commerce Commission and industry couldn't agree on last time they reviewed the 111 emergency services calling criteria.

 

Somebody needs to look after and maintain a UPS for calling to work during a power cut. To some extent that responsibility has to fall on the end consumer ultimately, yet many argued against that last time. There isn't even any certainly now in the copper world now that "vulnerable consumers" have corded phones that will work continue to provide service during a power cut.

 

 


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  #2134212 26-Nov-2018 10:20
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wellygary:

 

No its not as extensive as that, , - I'm guessing it will end up being similar to those who are listed by power companies as vulnerable...

 

232A Commission 111 contact code

 

(5)  In this section,—

 

"vulnerable consumer means a consumer of a specified telecommunications service who—

 

(a) is at particular risk of requiring the 111 emergency service (for example, due to a known medical condition); and (b) does not have a means for contacting the 111 emergency service that can be operated for the minimum period in the event of a power failure.

 

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2017/0293/latest/whole.html#LMS111362

 

 

Thanks for the clarification, the use of the word consumer made me think of it in economic terms.  Specified medical condition is much tighter.





Mike


 
 
 
 

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Aredwood
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  #2134713 26-Nov-2018 16:48

Was there ever a requirement for Telecom to offer a free means of calling 111 before they were split into Chorus, and what is now Spark? As I'm pretty sure that they would disconnect the line if there wasn't an active account associated with the line.

So in effect, this proposal is actually about giving people something for free, that they never previously got for free.





howdystranger
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  #2134867 26-Nov-2018 19:20
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Aredwood: Was there ever a requirement for Telecom to offer a free means of calling 111 before they were split into Chorus, and what is now Spark? As I'm pretty sure that they would disconnect the line if there wasn't an active account associated with the line.

So in effect, this proposal is actually about giving people something for free, that they never previously got for free.

 

I'm pretty sure under the TSO you only get free 111 calls if you're a customer with a landline already, although there may be something else which requires people to give free calls (perhaps the TCF code)


hio77
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  #2134888 26-Nov-2018 19:31
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sbiddle:

 

This document merely throws up issues again that the Commerce Commission and industry couldn't agree on last time they reviewed the 111 emergency services calling criteria.

 

Somebody needs to look after and maintain a UPS for calling to work during a power cut. To some extent that responsibility has to fall on the end consumer ultimately, yet many argued against that last time. There isn't even any certainly now in the copper world now that "vulnerable consumers" have corded phones that will work continue to provide service during a power cut.

 

 

 

 

vulnerable customers i see as a very broad term, especially the finalized changes from initial discussion..

 

 

 

I could see it very easily abused by someone who is anti alternatives to copper.. Or someone to get on it just so their faults and provisioning is always handled as a "vulnerable user"

 

If it's abused like that, all the great points to it for those customers who do really need it will just be muddied.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm also interested to see whos head the UPS would land on... Chorus as they provide the network? RSP as they provide the product?
then it gets complicated again, What changes if voice is via RGW?

 

 

 

I'm still of the belief that Customers should be incharge of keeping their side of the network online.

 

Network providers would do their part.

 

The problem here is... Customers see it as, i plug a corded phone in and it works without power, so clearly that always works! There totally isn't batteries and in extended times generators bought in to sustain that gear! 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have. 


richms
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  #2134890 26-Nov-2018 19:32
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What about the other copper services that they have made clear they have no intention of providing over fiber like basic rate and other obsolete phone connections like analog PABX trunks with the signalling etc?





Richard rich.ms

hio77
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  #2134895 26-Nov-2018 19:43
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richms:

 

What about the other copper services that they have made clear they have no intention of providing over fiber like basic rate and other obsolete phone connections like analog PABX trunks with the signalling etc?

 

 

Spark is pulling out of these on the small business side. 

 

 

 

Last i checked, spark being the largest consumer of these, it may start going too.

 

Legacy products chorus aren't a fan of keeping around, alot of their systems already don't support them very well requiring legacy systems to still be maintained... 

 

 

 

With fibre in Many places, there is a better priced product for an OTT managed service to replace them.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have. 


 
 
 
 

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snnet
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  #2134904 26-Nov-2018 20:50
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Shouldn't people who are listed as vulnerable be using something like a St John alarm? Do these have battery backup? If they do, maybe they should be approached for ensuring the link from the base station to the service they run over? If they aren't, maybe they should be? Maintaining to come under the monthly fee? 

 

I mean if people are truly vulnerable aren't they going to be financially entitled by WINZ/ACC/CYFS/others anyway to ensure this? I think it's a bit off for a RSP or network to ensure a customer's equipment will operate on the customer's end in the event of a power cut. This doesn't solve issues around UPSs for copper services as discussed previously of course.

 

 


Buckchoi
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  #2143080 11-Dec-2018 11:35
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On a related note: Late last month my non-fibre (yet) area had a power cut and the landline was immediately dead. This was the first time that I can recall that happening in many years of power outages in the area. Once the power returned, so did the dial tone. What would cause this problem? Something must've failed somewhere along the line. There hasn't been a power cut since then so I don't know whether this fault has been reported and fixed or not. The cabinet is MSY/BD. Thank you in advance.


wired
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  #2143111 11-Dec-2018 12:00
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I thought I heard that not all copper subscribers voice services are provided by copper loops from the exchange and that some only went back to a roadside cabinet where there was a VoIP user agent. There were some cases of this after the Christchurch earthquake where it wasn't economical to replace the copper all the way back to the exchange.

 

I know about the DSL being powered from the cabinet but unsure about the voice.

 

Does anyone know how long the batteries would last in such a roadside cabinet?

 

Can anyone confirm that?


Andib
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  #2143186 11-Dec-2018 12:34
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Buckchoi:

 

On a related note: Late last month my non-fibre (yet) area had a power cut and the landline was immediately dead. This was the first time that I can recall that happening in many years of power outages in the area. Once the power returned, so did the dial tone. What would cause this problem? Something must've failed somewhere along the line. There hasn't been a power cut since then so I don't know whether this fault has been reported and fixed or not. The cabinet is MSY/BD. Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

The backup battery has most likely failed (or at a point where it only holds a minimal charge).





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       .DISCLAIMER
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#>


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