Allegations of bribery in Chorus fibre roll-out

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DarkShadow

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#243257 3-Dec-2018 19:39

Chorus and its largest contractor Visionstream are investigating allegations of improper practices, including bribery, after concerns were raised by whistleblowers over the roll-out of ultrafast broadband.

The whistleblowers' claims ranged from conflicts of interest around business interests held by some Visionstream and Chorus staff, to a suspicion a Visionstream manager had accepted bribes for approving linesmen to carry out work on the new broadband network.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/109007104/allegations-of-bribery-and-improper-behaviour-investigated-in-broadband-rollout

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#2138817 3-Dec-2018 20:41

For every good installation story about Chorus contractors, I hear about 10 other awful incompetent and poorly performed installs. Heck the Geekzone forums are littered with Chorus installation complaints.

I really would be surprised if this turns out to be bogus.

sbiddle

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#2138818 3-Dec-2018 20:53

tehgerbil:

For every good installation story about Chorus contractors, I hear about 10 other awful incompetent and poorly performed installs. Heck the Geekzone forums are littered with Chorus installation complaints.

I really would be surprised if this turns out to be bogus.

I beg to differ - I'd completely turn that around.

There are definitely dodgy installs - but by far the vast majority go to plan and have no issues.

Aredwood

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#2138954 4-Dec-2018 01:28

Struggling to see the motives around the bribes (if we assume that the bribes definitely did happen). Surely there is enough installs that need to be done, that there won't be an incentive to approve work that normally wouldn't be needed. Or assign installs between installers different to the normal process.

Main scenario I can think of is the deliberate misclassification of jobs in relation to consenting. EG 2 standalone houses which are on a cross lease- approve as if there is no cross lease. Existing overhead cables that commit aerial trespass- Ignore the trespass and install aerial fibre anyway. As these sorts of things would allow an installer to complete their jobs quicker on average. Which means more profit for themselves.

And it would explain the complaints from people, who are annoyed about having to go through the consents process. When one of their neighbors on the same shared driveway or cross lease, got fibre installed without needing to get consents from the other neighbors.

Could get very interesting if some people managed to get Fibre. Who shouldn't have gotten fibre.

frankv

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#2138963 4-Dec-2018 06:48

Wondering how much the bribe would be to get fibre installed at my house *today*.

Bung

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#2138984 4-Dec-2018 08:09

frankv:
Wondering how much the bribe would be to get fibre installed at my house *today*.

I think the allegations refer to some installers having to pay to get jobs. There have been similar stories about restaurant workers and fruit pickers.

surfisup1000

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#2139020 4-Dec-2018 09:51

tehgerbil:

For every good installation story about Chorus contractors, I hear about 10 other awful incompetent and poorly performed installs. Heck the Geekzone forums are littered with Chorus installation complaints.

I really would be surprised if this turns out to be bogus.

To be fair, the media never reports 'good installs'.

Unless you have access to a large (enough) dataset consisting of randomised sampling of installation quality, it would be hard for to make such a call.

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surfisup1000

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#2139031 4-Dec-2018 09:51

sbiddle:

tehgerbil:

For every good installation story about Chorus contractors, I hear about 10 other awful incompetent and poorly performed installs. Heck the Geekzone forums are littered with Chorus installation complaints.

I really would be surprised if this turns out to be bogus.

I beg to differ - I'd completely turn that around.

There are definitely dodgy installs - but by far the vast majority go to plan and have no issues.

Again, unless you have access to quality statistical data it would be hard to make such a conclusion.

sbiddle

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#2139033 4-Dec-2018 09:57

surfisup1000:

sbiddle:

tehgerbil:

For every good installation story about Chorus contractors, I hear about 10 other awful incompetent and poorly performed installs. Heck the Geekzone forums are littered with Chorus installation complaints.

I really would be surprised if this turns out to be bogus.

I beg to differ - I'd completely turn that around.

There are definitely dodgy installs - but by far the vast majority go to plan and have no issues.

Again, unless you have access to quality statistical data it would be hard to make such a conclusion.

Well I have the data of all the installs the company I work for lodges and I have to deal with the complications of bad installs, so I'm basing my conclusion on that.

MikeB4

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#2139059 4-Dec-2018 10:27

sbiddle:

surfisup1000:

sbiddle:

tehgerbil:

For every good installation story about Chorus contractors, I hear about 10 other awful incompetent and poorly performed installs. Heck the Geekzone forums are littered with Chorus installation complaints.

I really would be surprised if this turns out to be bogus.

I beg to differ - I'd completely turn that around.

There are definitely dodgy installs - but by far the vast majority go to plan and have no issues.

Again, unless you have access to quality statistical data it would be hard to make such a conclusion.

Well I have the data of all the installs the company I work for lodges and I have to deal with the complications of bad installs, so I'm basing my conclusion on that.

From an inlaw on the inside the percentage of installs that have issues is very low. My install was not the smoothest but I still believe what he is telling me.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2139101 4-Dec-2018 10:42

sbiddle:

Well I have the data of all the installs the company I work for lodges and I have to deal with the complications of bad installs, so I'm basing my conclusion on that.

While i won't stantiate this with numbers, i can confirm what steve says.

the vast majority of installs go through without a hitch.

aliken it to say, the recent release of Nvidias RTX cards 'all cards were failing' - this was later confirmed to be in the 1-3% range depending on dataset.

I do agree, this problem does need looking at and improved, it looks bad for the whole roll-out of fibre. Not to mention it gives field techs a bad name - many are actually bloody good.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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#2139151 4-Dec-2018 11:08

sbiddle:

surfisup1000: Again, unless you have access to quality statistical data it would be hard to make such a conclusion.

Well I have the data of all the installs the company I work for lodges and I have to deal with the complications of bad installs, so I'm basing my conclusion on that.

I would say that also over the years of the deployment overall the LFCs have been improving with their build quality which to me isn't a surprise either since while Fibre rollout isn't exactly new doing it to scale and into residential properties adds a whole new complexity to it.

In my previous employer I dealt with the fallout of the utterly terrible installs when things had all gone seriously wrong. But considering the growth in active connections that occurred without any escalation then I can't say the majority of installs went well.

It is a bit OT from this thread, as I think the bribery aspect is the same issue no matter which trade you work in. This is just more visible due to the scale of the build and the number of sub-contractors required to get it over the line.

I would have happily bribed an installer $20 to get UFB installed sooner, but the reality is there isn't much that can be done to speed up the process.

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tripper1000

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#2139229 4-Dec-2018 13:23

Bribery is not necessarily the end customer paying cash to get a job done sooner - it could be subcontractors having to pay kickbacks to prime contractors etc. The kickbacks are not necessarily cash aka Fulton Hogan or could be invoices and refunds that are go through the books to appear above board aka Gaming Machine maintenance/hydraulic-ing charges.

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#2139252 4-Dec-2018 14:06

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/109072833/ultrafast-broadband-network-built-on-the-cheap

And this now too.

Most IME have not gone well, of all the people I know only 2 had a good install process.

A lot of people don't complain publicly.

Chorusnz

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#2139263 4-Dec-2018 14:25

Hey All,

Thought we'd jump in and give you a bit of a run down on the recent news articles relating to this thread.

Chorus has listened carefully to a number of allegations made by some concerned technicians.

We are now working closely with our largest primary contractor, Visionstream, to conduct formal investigations into the specific allegations, along with conducting our own investigations.

In addition, the technicians have also spoken to Doug Martin, who is conducting the independent review into the overall sub-contracting model.

Along with Visionstream, we are following strict whistle blower protocols, including protecting the identity of the individuals who have raised the issues directly to us.

A full and thorough process is being followed to ensure any response is fair, accurate and proportionate, as well as protecting the privacy of anyone implicated by the allegations until investigations are completed. More broadly, Chorus and its primary contractors Visionstream and UCG continue to work constructively with Labour Inspectorate to identify any other sub-contracted businesses who may be breaching employment law.

Chorus and its primary contractors are absolutely committed to resolving issues within the sub-contracting environment and Chorus thanks the individuals for raising their concerns in order for them to be thoroughly investigated.

We see that there's a bit of a conversation related to our consents process. Just to clarify, the installation of fibre services is made by way of specific statutory process. That includes a notification process. Within that process, the interested parties are advised of the proposed works, and if no objection is filed within the required time frame, then a deemed consent to enter the subject land to undertake the install arises. We have plenty of information on our consents and category process here: https://www.chorus.co.nz/propertyaccess

If anyone has had issues with work undertaken at their property during the Fibre install process then we definitely want to do everything we can to get this rectified. Please feel free to send us an email here, contact us through our social media channels or https://www.chorus.co.nz/contact-us

Sara.

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#2139270 4-Dec-2018 14:45

pctek:

A lot of people don't complain publicly.

NONE post online when things go well. I am responsible for supervising dozedozens dozens of these over time, and I can tell you maybe 10% are nightmares, usually getting them started. Once they are underway, they are usually very good.

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