ADSL or VDSL?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › ADSL or VDSL?

Beavis

171 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37

#270016 19-Apr-2020 21:35

Hi. I have new neighbours, and they are on VDSL. Everyone else in the street is on ADSL, and we are all about 2.4 KM from the phone exchange. (Rural). I did some snooping in the Chorus Broadband checker and neightbors are getting 16 Mbps down on VDSL, me on ADSL 18 Mbps down. Could someone take a look at the specs from my modem to see if it is worth trying VDSL? Being in lockdown has hi-lighted the lame ADSL upload speed...

Hopeful Pete

P.S. hope I have loaded this image link OK...

Beware of FUD...

1 | 2

12178 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8472

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2465738 19-Apr-2020 21:38

2.4KM is too far for VDSL I would stick to ADSL

Beavis

171 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37

#2465741 19-Apr-2020 21:42

That's what I thought, although I say 2.4 km assuming cable takes same path as road. So I attached the specs from the modem. I accidentally uploaded a screen shot from my modem from years ago before DLM change. Correct one loaded now.

Beware of FUD...

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
13036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3896

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

Subscriber

#2465744 19-Apr-2020 21:49

Honestly, it will be a vectored exchange. I'd give it a shot.

you have a HG659b there. so it's literally a toggle of the card (or a tech callout for changing port if you happen to be on an ADSL only card)

Worst case you can rollback..

your line itself looks pretty clean there..

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Beavis

171 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37

#2465746 19-Apr-2020 22:01

OK, might give it a try after locjdown. I have done a lot of fiddling (master filter etc) to get good results. The modem I normally use is an old WXC Audiocodes MP264 as it is the fastest (and most stable) of the 5 modems I have. Just used the HG659 because it shows the line attenuation etc.

Beware of FUD...

coffeebaron

6304 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3567

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2465838 20-Apr-2020 08:57

The main risk will be losing upstream speed. So worth a shot but roll back if that happens.

Rural IT and Broadband support.

Broadband troubleshooting and master filter installs.
Starlink installer - one month free: https://www.starlink.com/?referral=RC-32845-88860-71
Wi-Fi and networking
Cel-Fi supply and installer - boost your mobile phone coverage legally

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com

nztim

4012 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2710

ID Verified

Trusted

TEAMnetwork

Subscriber

#2465861 20-Apr-2020 09:37

Beavis:

OK, might give it a try after locjdown. I have done a lot of fiddling (master filter etc) to get good results. The modem I normally use is an old WXC Audiocodes MP264 as it is the fastest (and most stable) of the 5 modems I have. Just used the HG659 because it shows the line attenuation etc.

Master filters 3pair (Line, Voice, DSL) give the best results..... even if the connection is a naked connection

2pair Master Filters (Line/DSL, Voice) are still good, but not as good as the 3 pair

Funny story... I took a connection for a customer working in self isolation from 4mbps to 17mbps just by ripping out the self install filters and replacing with a master filter

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2638
Inactive user

#2465881 20-Apr-2020 10:17

Master filters 3pair (Line, Voice, DSL) give the best results..... even if the connection is a naked connection

2pair Master Filters (Line/DSL, Voice) are still good, but not as good as the 3 pair

@cyril7 can probably chime in... But I feel quite confident saying the 2 vs 3 pair splitters are exactly the same electrically. They are just a low pass filter across the "voice" output.

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
13036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3896

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

Subscriber

#2465899 20-Apr-2020 10:32

I've seen large differences in them, in some cases but honestly.. i feel like the gains might even simply be moving from a 3 pair to 2 pair crimp and being able to get a more solid connection...

Can't say i've dug into the electrical design for them though. they fill them with that putty crap...

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

nztim

4012 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2710

ID Verified

Trusted

TEAMnetwork

Subscriber

#2465924 20-Apr-2020 11:02

hio77:

Can't say i've dug into the electrical design for them though. they fill them with that putty crap...

While we are all working from home, anyone want to take a hacksaw to one? :)

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

snnet

1413 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 556

#2465926 20-Apr-2020 11:06

(Wups... talked about the wrong thing there)

Most cases where I've swapped things out between the dsl/line/voice filters and the dsl+line/voice filters I don't believe there was a difference, but I have had more of the dsl+line/voice ones fail more

cyril7

9075 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2465928 20-Apr-2020 11:07

Hi, the 3port filters only appeared when the VDSL2 spec filter was required. Two port filters were ADSL1/2 spec'd.

The filter design has the allowance to put a high pass filter between the input and the modem port, however to my understanding no designs did this, the modem port is just directly connected to the line port and a low pass section between the line and phone port, regardless its was Telecoms spec at the time that the new VDSL2 compliant filters had 3 ports, if the design included a highpass section to meet spec so be it.

Cyril

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

nztim

4012 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2710

ID Verified

Trusted

TEAMnetwork

Subscriber

#2465931 20-Apr-2020 11:11

cyril7:

Hi, the 3port filters only appeared when the VDSL2 spec filter was required. Two port filters were ADSL1/2 spec'd.

The filter design has the allowance to put a high pass filter between the input and the modem port, however to my understanding no designs did this, the modem port is just directly connected to the line port and a low pass section between the line and phone port, regardless its was Telecoms spec at the time that the new VDSL2 compliant filters had 3 ports, if the design included a highpass section to meet spec so be it.

Cyril

Hi pass filter or not, in the real world they work better than 2 pair....

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

cyril7

9075 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2465950 20-Apr-2020 11:28

Hi, there is evidence that suggests the filter helps smooth off the lumped impedance characteristics of the line the end result is, yes you typically get better performance with the filter in place regardless of a POTs device/circuit being attached or not.

Cyril

cyril7

9075 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2465954 20-Apr-2020 11:33

nztim:

Snip..............

Master filters 3pair (Line, Voice, DSL) give the best results..... even if the connection is a naked connection

2pair Master Filters (Line/DSL, Voice) are still good, but not as good as the 3 pair

Funny story... I took a connection for a customer working in self isolation from 4mbps to 17mbps just by ripping out the self install filters and replacing with a master filter

With regards to your example at the end, dont forget when installing a master filter you not only place a LPF between the line and POTS devices, but the fact that you lift all wiring other then the direct line to the modem is also at play. So having several micro (self install) filters at each phone only applys the LP action, it does not remove the taps the house wiring will present, which only a correctly installed master filter will achieve.

Cyril

nztim

4012 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2710

ID Verified

Trusted

TEAMnetwork

Subscriber

#2466018 20-Apr-2020 12:04

cyril7:

nztim:

Snip..............

Master filters 3pair (Line, Voice, DSL) give the best results..... even if the connection is a naked connection

2pair Master Filters (Line/DSL, Voice) are still good, but not as good as the 3 pair

Funny story... I took a connection for a customer working in self isolation from 4mbps to 17mbps just by ripping out the self install filters and replacing with a master filter

With regards to your example at the end, dont forget when installing a master filter you not only place a LPF between the line and POTS devices, but the fact that you lift all wiring other then the direct line to the modem is also at play. So having several micro (self install) filters at each phone only applys the LP action, it does not remove the taps the house wiring will present, which only a correctly installed master filter will achieve.

Cyril

The other thing that the master filter resolved in the the case above was when there was an incoming call on the POTS line the DSL would completely disconnect, they had been putting up with this for years. It was only the Thursday before the lock down when our client told all their staff to test working from home, that this staff member raised the issue. We installed the Master filter on that Saturday.... On the Monday alert level 4 was announced!

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

1 | 2