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#270646 20-May-2020 09:20
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Just received - notice the feedback is to be provided in the Commerce Commission page linked from the release:

 

 

The Commerce Commission is seeking feedback on its draft ‘copper withdrawal code’. The code is intended to protect consumers that Chorus wants to move off its old copper network onto faster and more reliable technologies such as fibre networks.

“By 2022, most New Zealanders are expected to have access to fibre at home. That means large parts of the traditional copper phone and broadband network may no longer be needed,” said Telecommunications Commissioner Dr Stephen Gale.

“To ensure consumers are protected, the Commission has designed the copper withdrawal code that Chorus, the provider of New Zealand’s copper telecommunications network, must follow.”

The  draft code sets minimum requirements that Chorus must meet before it will be able to stop providing copper services, such as landlines and ADSL or VDSL broadband, to a consumer – including that equivalent services must be provided over fibre. 

 “The code ensures consumers who are still using copper services will get at least 6 months’ notice, be provided with information about moving to fibre, and – if they order it – have fibre installed at their home before the copper services can be stopped,” said Dr Gale.

"The earliest Chorus can stop supplying these services is after the code is finalised from late-2020 and only in the areas where fibre is available to be installed in homes and once the consumer protections of the code are met. In areas where fibre is not currently available Chorus must continue to supply services over the copper network. 

“We are inviting feedback from individual consumers and advocacy groups about the proposed code. We’re also interested in hearing views about any additional protections needed for consumers during the transition to fibre that could be addressed by the code.”

Submissions can be made via the Commission's website by 5pm on 17 July 2020. The final code is expected to be finalised and published in September 2020.

Background
The Commerce Commission regulates telecommunications companies in New Zealand and can set guidelines and rules that telecommunications companies must follow. Under the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Act, the Commission has produced a copper withdrawal code that supports the government-funded roll out of fibre through the Ultra-Fast Broadband initiative. The code sets out minimum consumer protection requirements where Chorus seeks to stop supplying copper services.  

The Commission encourages consumers to prepare for the transition to new phone and broadband technologies by:

• Checking with your phone and broadband provider what technology you are on and investigating what new technologies are available in your area. Try searching your address on www.broadbandmap.nz

• If you have a fibre landline, make sure you have a basic mobile phone (and keep it charged) or battery backup available, as landlines provided over fibre and mobile networks are unlikely to work in a power cut

• Be aware that cordless phones may not work in a power cut, even if you still have a copper landline. Make sure you have a backup corded phone or mobile phone in case the power goes out.





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  #2486856 20-May-2020 09:23
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I give permission for the copper network to be turned off in 30 days :P


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  #2486864 20-May-2020 09:38
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ADSL/VDSL in an SFA should have no new connections....

 

Analogue voice is a touchy subject especially with the elderly... noted in the 2018 commissions broadband report there are still 200k "Voice Only" copper connections, this data was not in the 2019 report, 

 

This still represents 5% of the population

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2486867 20-May-2020 09:49
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nztim:

 

ADSL/VDSL in an SFA should have no new connections....

 

Analogue voice is a touchy subject especially with the elderly... noted in the 2018 commissions broadband report there are still 200k "Voice Only" copper connections, this data was not in the 2019 report, 

 

This still represents 5% of the population

 

 

Interesting idea. If you didn't allow change orders either you would naturally have attrition from xDSL as people move in & out of premises.

 

Who actually offers voice only fibre connections? Seems like the big providers are all pushing wireless landline. The reason should be obvious: cost to the provider = more margin on wireless. However my understand was there's no cost for fibre installation for voice-only? Not sure what the issue is here then, if a provider wants to offer it.


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  #2486878 20-May-2020 10:08
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boosacnoodle:

 

However my understand was there's no cost for fibre installation for voice-only?

 

There's a monthly wholesale cost to the RSP to keep the ATA port of an ONT running, just like there is for a broadband service.

 

The broadband services tend to also include an ATA port on the ONT, but not all RSPs use it.


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  #2486881 20-May-2020 10:10
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Households need some form of protection, portions of Whitford in AKL for example have no access to fiber, with no forseeable installations and little to no wireless communications options.  

 

Having to support housing in this area for other infrastructure we have experienced this first hand.

 

No doubt there are other areas in the same boat 


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  #2486886 20-May-2020 10:16
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hsvhel:

 

Households need some form of protection, portions of Whitford in AKL for example have no access to fiber, with no forseeable installations and little to no wireless communications options.  

 

Having to support housing in this area for other infrastructure we have experienced this first hand.

 

No doubt there are other areas in the same boat 

 

 

If there is no fibre available the service will continue to be supported, that is in the code - Chorus cant withdraw the copper service in areas where there is no fibre


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  #2486896 20-May-2020 10:48
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nztim:

 

hsvhel:

 

Households need some form of protection, portions of Whitford in AKL for example have no access to fiber, with no forseeable installations and little to no wireless communications options.  

 

Having to support housing in this area for other infrastructure we have experienced this first hand.

 

No doubt there are other areas in the same boat 

 

 

If there is no fibre available the service will continue to be supported, that is in the code - Chorus cant withdraw the copper service in areas where there is no fibre

 

 

Understand this, it's good to see in writing that the commitment stands.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2486950 20-May-2020 11:13
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boosacnoodle: Who actually offers voice only fibre connections?

 

I know Spark offers "Voice Only" product with Voice over Fibre using the ATA port in the ONT where the Broadband service isn't provisioned as I built and tested it. It was built and tested when VoIP over UFB first launched from Spark as back in the day we knew there was a proportion of customers who were Voice only, including older folks who moved into new apartments that were UFB only and couldn't get voice service.

 

Now I am no longer at Spark I don't know exactly what has happened but I am 99.9% sure they are moving everything to VoIP over Wireless as that has no input cost vs the $26 or whatever it was on UFB from the LFC and Voice traffic takes very little capacity on the mobile network. I would doubt that Spark would offer VoIP over UFB these days and actively look to move everyone onto Wireless as it is cheaper.

 

But when it launched there was a far higher uptake than I expected, as it was ~2% of the total customer base... which surprised me.





and


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  #2487036 20-May-2020 12:21
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BarTender:

 

I would doubt that Spark would offer VoIP over UFB these days and actively look to move everyone onto Wireless as it is cheaper.

 

 

I expect that to be met with considerable backlash from some people


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  #2487101 20-May-2020 12:42
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Linux:

 

I give permission for the copper network to be turned off in 30 days :P

 

 

:-) I personally see value for our customers in the ability to have secondary dialers on CPE for DR/Business continuity (xdsl) - I've seen a number of examples where fibre networks have been cut, leveraging more legacy connectivity has saved their bacon...

 

Nick.





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  #2487111 20-May-2020 13:14
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My query is what about for someone up a driveway (shared with neighbours) who would love fibre installed at their place but can't get consent from everyone, so fibre can't be installed (even though it's technically available). What happens in that situation?


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  #2487117 20-May-2020 13:23
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quickymart:

 

My query is what about for someone up a driveway (shared with neighbours) who would love fibre installed at their place but can't get consent from everyone, so fibre can't be installed (even though it's technically available). What happens in that situation?

 

 

I say disconnect the connection from the *&(*%$ who is not providing consent 😄 

 

TBH this was raised in the draft consultation but doesn't appear to be addressed in this draft code

 

 


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  #2487387 20-May-2020 20:26
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nztim:

 

I expect that to be met with considerable backlash from some people

 

 

This is difficult from a position of people who have little to no mobile coverage, yet have UFB available. At the end of the day I guess the ISPs are not obligated to offer VoIP over UFB.

 

quickymart:

 

My query is what about for someone up a driveway (shared with neighbours) who would love fibre installed at their place but can't get consent from everyone, so fibre can't be installed (even though it's technically available). What happens in that situation?

 

 

Presumably they will get notice, as will the neighbour, that services are ending. This could get interesting if the neighbour is on Wireless and doesn't want the fibre cable run. Guess who else will now be forced onto Wireless?


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  #2487391 20-May-2020 20:42
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Exactly why (IMO) the fibre rollout should have been done a) without requiring RSP involvement and b) without requiring neighbour consent. The arrangement in place now where an effected neighbour can object in very limited grounds strikes an ok balance, and this is how it should have been all along.

But what’s done is done.

Would be interested to know how many properties and people would potentially have copper now, with no fibre or RBI/wireless option available.




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  #2487450 20-May-2020 23:13
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antonknee:
Would be interested to know how many properties and people would potentially have copper now, with no fibre or RBI/wireless option available.


Quick trip ti gis.geek.nz tells you its a “a lot”

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