Landlord forbids fibre installation

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BlakJak

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#304512 10-May-2023 17:44

Caught this off another medium:

https://www.tcf.org.nz/consumers/news/2023-05-09-first-world-problem-when-your-landlord-wont-say-yes-to-fibre/

Worth flagging to people their legal rights. This landlord needs to be taken to tribunal!

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#3074637 10-May-2023 17:50

From the link

The law is quite straightforward on this matter: Landlords have 21 days to respond to a written request for fibre, and where the install would be free the landlord must allow it unless it would:

compromise a building’s structural integrity or materially compromise its weathertightness or character
affect extensive planned alterations or repairs that the landlord can prove are starting within 90 days
breach an obligation or restriction relevant to the premises (like a body corp rule).

nzkc

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#3074642 10-May-2023 17:54

These landlords are idiots!

From the article:

Unfortunately in this case the landlords refused to discuss the matter and the customer is unable to connect. Fortunately, Chorus has reinstated the copper line to ensure she has some coverage while we try to find a solution, but what a ridiculous situation to find yourself in.

Good job Chorus on this one.

I know this is easier said than done, but if I were the renter I'd leave and find somewhere that has fiber or allows it to be installed. The landlords are eventually going to find it harder and harder to rent that property. I honestly hope they get to a point where they are forced to install it and it is at their cost. Though suspect if/when that happens they'll sell the property. Either way they're losing on a free investment on their property.

BlakJak

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#3074645 10-May-2023 18:07

Tenant may not want to move, may not be able to afford to move, why should they turn their lives upside down because a LL fails to obey the law?

Enforcement action here needs teeth.

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Bung

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#3074650 10-May-2023 18:17

In a case that obviously didn't get referred to the "landlord" a house here that had some brief fame for having squatters had fibre broadband installed during the period it was occupied. At the time fibre was run past the house the last legal tenant had already left.

nzkc

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#3074680 10-May-2023 18:51

BlakJak:

Tenant may not want to move, may not be able to afford to move, why should they turn their lives upside down because a LL fails to obey the law?

Enforcement action here needs teeth.

Like I said "I know this is easier said than done"

But if its a critical thing for you tough choices need to be made. Also; its possible they'd be forced to move simply with the landlords selling. This is a risk with renting.

nztim

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#3074713 10-May-2023 19:48

If I was a landlord I would demand where and how its installed (e.g I would not let it get tacked to a fence or a shallow bury across a driveway)

But adding fibre to my property increases its value.

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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richms

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#3074786 10-May-2023 20:48

Really I think that a landlord that refused to install it in the manner that they are happy with should be dealt with the same way as one that refuses to put in the legally required insulation or extractor fans that have to be done.

If its a fiber area, and its not installed into the property then not allowed to rent it out till its installed. Just like you cant rent a place without running water. If they don't want it installed in the house then they can live in it themselves or leave it empty.

And if its not a fiber area then they should not be allowed to block the isntallation of any antennas for RBI, Starlink or some random local p2p wireless provider. Same thing. Have internet or not be allowed to rent it out.

Richard rich.ms

Wheelbarrow01

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#3074787 10-May-2023 20:48

This is an interesting one for sure, but tenancy law is pretty clear on a few aspects of this particular scenario:

Any landlord who is out of NZ for longer than 21 consecutive days must by law appoint an agent to act on their behalf for all matters relating to the tenancy, and they must provide the tenant with the agent's contact details. Failure to do this is a breach of the RTA and an unlawful act, and the tenant can issue a notice to remedy.
As others have said, there are only limited grounds to oppose a fibre installation. If the tenant has asked in writing and the landlord has not responded (or responded negatively without providing a qualifying reason), then this is also a breach of the RTA and the tenant can again apply to the Tenancy Tribunal for a binding decision to be made.

In my opinion, if both these infractions were presented at the Tenancy Tribunal, they would likely find in the tenant's favour on both counts. The landlord could be fined and the tenant could be awarded damages on top.

Having said that, I do understand that there are many tenants out there that are scared of retaliatory action from their landlord and so they do nothing. Retalitory action could be anything from attempting to raise the rent to an unreasonable level, threats to evict, stalking, intimidation etc. Of course, anything deemed to be retaliatory action from a landlord is also a breach of the RTA, so would likely lead to further sactions on the landlord.

Unfortunately many tenants simply do noy understand their rights, and as a result are not comfortable to try and enforce them.

I have personally assisted with a case of landlord refusal in a copper withdrawal area. Unfortunately Chorus were powerless to act in that case - we had multiple meetings with the owner onsite and a number of options were presented (including thrusting onsite at our cost), but the owner flat out refused all of them. Ultimately we had to leave it to the tenant to take action and get a binding decision from the Tenancy Tribunal. I am not aware of any cases where this has actually happened yet (but it may have).

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

nztim

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#3074792 10-May-2023 21:14

Wheelbarrow01:

Chorus were powerless to act in that case - we had multiple meetings with the owner onsite and a number of options were presented (including thrusting onsite at our cost), but the owner flat out refused all of them.

You can thrust? I was told flat out no and if they couldn't get it through my copper pipe it would go on a fence. Even if I was willing to pay.

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nztim

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#3074793 10-May-2023 21:20

Off topic @wheelbarrow01 but what is the plan for copper withdrawal with all the illegally split flats in Wellington, where the landlord has 2-4 units on a single title?

First unit gets free fibre, what happens with the remaining three?

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Linux

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#3074796 10-May-2023 21:23

nztim:

Off topic @wheelbarrow01 but what is the plan for copper withdrawal with all the illegally split flats in Wellington, where the landlord has 2-4 units on a single title?

First unit gets free fibre, what happens with the remaining three?

@nztim They pay!

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nztim

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#3074797 10-May-2023 21:23

Linux:

@nztim They pay!

Copper can't be withdrawn without a free replacement fibre connection.

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Linux

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#3074798 10-May-2023 21:25

nztim:

Linux:

@nztim They pay!

Copper can't be withdrawn without a free replacement fibre connection.

If the address has fibre and only 1 house should be on that address then copper can be shut down

Tenants flight it out with the landlord

Wheelbarrow01

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#3074828 10-May-2023 22:05

nztim:

Off topic @wheelbarrow01 but what is the plan for copper withdrawal with all the illegally split flats in Wellington, where the landlord has 2-4 units on a single title?

First unit gets free fibre, what happens with the remaining three?

I can't give you an official answer off the top of my head, but I can share a relevant anecdote....

A friend of mine owns a rental property in Newtown Wellington. It's your typical early 20th century Wellington two story villa type deal. At some stage it was converted into an upstairs and a downstairs flat. The first tenant to apply for fibre got it connected no problem at all.

When the second tenant ordered fibre, my friend received an Infill Build quote to pay Chorus before the second dwelling could be connected to fibre. Knowing I work for Chorus, he contacted me to look into it.

What I found is that when the building was split into two dwellings, whoever owned it at the time decided to retain a single letterbox, and that continued right through to the present day. This means that when Chorus was planning the fibre network in the area, this building was recorded as a single dwelling unit, and as a result Chorus only designed and built a single fibre lead-in for it.

Chorus draws our address data from Core Logic, and to this day they still have it it recorded as an SDU (almost certainly due to the single letterbox). So in this case, although the second dwelling had physically existed for a number of years, nobody really knew it existed, it was consequently not planned for or included in the fibre roll-out, and my friend ultimately had to pay for the second fibre lead-in.

Now, if for example the property had had two separate letterboxes for the past 20 years, it is highly likely that Core Logic would have had the two separate addresses recorded in their database, so when that address data was shared with Chorus, we would have designed and built two fibre lead-ins.

What I am saying is that Chorus relied on the address data we had available at the time the fibre network was designed. By the way, if you happen to be the owner of multiple units sharing a simgle letterbox, rushing out to install a second, third or fourth letterbox now will not achieve anything in areas where fibre has already been run down the street. The simple fact is that if separate dwellings were not identifiable at the time, then all the additional dwellings will have to go down the paid install route.

I understand the "copper can't be withdrawn without a free replacement fibre connection" argument, but I suspect it's a very grey area yet to be tested. Let's say there are two copper lines and they have always been recorded under a single address point, the argument might be that without receiving prior evidence to the contrary, Chorus understood both lines to be in the same dwelling, and so there is an argument that utilising the second port of a single ONT is a perfectly reasonable solution based on the evidence we had at the time.

This is NOT official Chorus policy - just the situation as I understand it based on what I have observed in my role. I am happy to pose the question higher up the chain to get an official Chorus position on these types of scenario, and I can start a new thread to report back on that particular topic.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

raytaylor

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#3074831 10-May-2023 22:16

nztim:

Even if I was willing to pay.

I think the fact its free needs to be conveyed to consumers more. We as an isp offer this as a top-up service - we have a few contractors we work with to preinstall where customers are sensitive to the standards of a free installation.

Chorus will give you the free installation which is the quickest and cheapest option for them.

But you can pay your own contractor for a higher standard.

Just open a copy of the yellow pages or your local edition of google and find someone you can pay to install a duct to your required standard - chorus can then pull their microduct through it.

Ray Taylor

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