Hyperfibre - Tuatahi Huaweu ONT 10G to 2.5G (SFP)

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Hyperfibre - Tuatahi Huaweu ONT 10G to 2.5G (SFP)

snowfly

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#306728 16-Aug-2023 14:23

I've been on Gigabit fibre for a while, but looking at possible upgrade to 2G Hyperfibre, to support work from home office and home lab, including adding 2.5G switch to support existing NAS (with 2.5G) and PCs with 2.5G NICs. (note I'm not looking to solve any networking issue with gigabit fibre, this has been good, just looking for faster connection, primarily uploads, to support work from home, where I use approx 150GB data per day).

Need some advice on how the connection from ONT to router would work.

As I'm in a Tuatahi fibre region, their provided ONT for Hyperfibre is a Huawei HN8250Ts: https://prismic-io.s3.amazonaws.com/tuatahi/92c2ebd3-145f-41f6-bb25-30cf2a368384_TFF_ONT_Tech_Specs_Hyperfibre.pdf
And the specs say there is a single 10GE port adapting to 100/1000/10000, with no mention of 2.5G.

My current router is a Grandstream GWN7003, which has 2 x SFP modules that support 2.5G, so in theory my plan was something like this:

Huawai ONT
Cat6
SFP RJ45 module as WAN in GWN7003
GWN7003
SFP RJ45 module as LAN in GWN7003
Cat6
2.5G switch (e.g. GWN7701M or QNAP QSW-1108-8T)
Devices connected with cat6 on 2.5G (e.g. NAS, PCs)

I'm not familiar with SFP modules, so how would the 10GE port on the Huawei ONT connect and negotiate with an SFP RJ45 module in the GWN7003 running at 2.5G?

I did find a post here regarding the Chorus Nokia ONT does autosensing to 2.5: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=303763&page_no=1#3052399
But I'm not sure on the Huawei ONT used by Tautahi?

I'm guessing I need something to negotiate 10G on the ONT side, and 2.5G on my router side?
Forgive me if I've mentioned anything incorrectly, anything over 1G is new to me, including SFP.

Would rather check here first for advice, before purchasing any further equipment and finding out it doesn't work, in that case may as well stay on gigabit fibre.

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meow
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#3116772 16-Aug-2023 14:31

To be honest I doubt a ~$150 router has the ability to route 2Gbit but then again I've been surprised before.

It should negotiate at 2.5Gbit.

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mikesmac

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#3116826 16-Aug-2023 16:08

The TFF Hyperfibre ONT does not support 2.5Gb. It has to be either 1G or 10G.

Ruphus

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#3116850 16-Aug-2023 16:59

Doesn't that router only support Gigabit SFP ports?

1x GbE RJ45 port with IEEE 802.3af/at PoE Input and 2x GbE RJ45 ports with 48V Passive PoE output or IEEE802.3af (GWN7002/GWN7003)
Supports multiple Gigabit RJ45 ports and Gigabit SFP ports

snowfly

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#3116852 16-Aug-2023 17:01

Ruphus:

Doesn't that router only support Gigabit SFP ports?

1x GbE RJ45 port with IEEE 802.3af/at PoE Input and 2x GbE RJ45 ports with 48V Passive PoE output or IEEE802.3af (GWN7002/GWN7003)
Supports multiple Gigabit RJ45 ports and Gigabit SFP ports

There was a recent update which added 2.5G SFP support: https://documentation.grandstream.com/knowledge-base/gwn700x-user-guide/#change-log

snowfly

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#3116855 16-Aug-2023 17:08

mikesmac:

The TFF Hyperfibre ONT does not support 2.5Gb. It has to be either 1G or 10G.

@mikesmac: Thanks, have you tried this yourself, or just basing this from the specs? (interested to know your source).

If this is true, I guess this halts my plans using the GWN7003 router with 2.5G port, and may have to stick with gigabit fibre.

Unless I can put something (a 10G switch?) between the ONT and GWN7003 that can negotiate 10G on one side, and 2.5G on the other. (don't shoot me if this is a silly idea)

mikesmac

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#3116859 16-Aug-2023 17:21

I have a dream machine pro thing, has both 2.5G, and 10G port, would only work on the 10Gport. The technical document for the ONT also specifies that only 100Mb/1000Mb/10Gb are the only supported speeds.

https://prismic-io.s3.amazonaws.com/tuatahi/92c2ebd3-145f-41f6-bb25-30cf2a368384_TFF_ONT_Tech_Specs_Hyperfibre.pdf

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AQuietPlace

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#3119017 22-Aug-2023 15:17

I did a 10GE WAN product search on PB Tech website (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/search?sf=10GE+WAN).

They have a Wi-Fi 6E Router that looks like a perfect fit (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETNCM6010/Netcomm-CF60-Tri-Band-Wi-Fi-6E-10G-HyperFibre-Rout)

Unfortunately out of stock at the moment.

Has anyone tried this unit before?

Any opinion on this?

Thanks.

allio

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#3119022 22-Aug-2023 15:43

snowfly:

mikesmac:

The TFF Hyperfibre ONT does not support 2.5Gb. It has to be either 1G or 10G.

@mikesmac: Thanks, have you tried this yourself, or just basing this from the specs? (interested to know your source).

If this is true, I guess this halts my plans using the GWN7003 router with 2.5G port, and may have to stick with gigabit fibre.

Unless I can put something (a 10G switch?) between the ONT and GWN7003 that can negotiate 10G on one side, and 2.5G on the other. (don't shoot me if this is a silly idea)

You definitely can't do ONT -> Grandstream with greater than 1G speeds. The ONT can't do 2.5G and the Grandstream can't do 10G. End of story.

You can put a 10G multimode managed switch in between them. It's not a straightforward setup and will require you to learn a lot about VLANs, but it will do what you want and both ONT and router will work at their maximum speeds. However - look up the cost of managed 10G ethernet switches and decide if this is really worthwhile for you. It'd be more sensible to spend the money on a genuine 10G router as this will allow you to make use of all the hyperfibre speeds, not just 2G.

You can get SFP+ 10G switches for much cheaper and add a 10G transceiver for the ONT and a 2.5G transceiver for the Grandstream (or a DAC/fibre link if it supports 2.5G over this? Unclear, wouldn't bank on it) - it would work out to be the cheapest option overall. However, unlike copper, 10G <-> 2.5G SFP+ is complicated. Most transceivers work but performance can be poor, because most switches that support 2.5G SFP+ modules actually treat them internally as 10G links. There can be weird packet collision and queuing issues as a result. Some rare modules contain internal logic for addressing this but they're hard to find and expensive. It probably wouldn't be an issue with 2G hyperfibre as the link will never get saturated, but it'd be a potential problem if you ever upgraded to a faster plan.

All in all I'd suggest that none of this is remotely cost-effective as you won't actually notice the slightest difference in real world experience after all the money spent.

michaelmurfy

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#3119056 22-Aug-2023 16:55

AQuietPlace:

I did a 10GE WAN product search on PB Tech website (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/search?sf=10GE+WAN).

They have a Wi-Fi 6E Router that looks like a perfect fit (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETNCM6010/Netcomm-CF60-Tri-Band-Wi-Fi-6E-10G-HyperFibre-Rout)

Unfortunately out of stock at the moment.

The question I always ask is what are you trying to achieve with getting Hyperfibre? It is still somewhat of a niche and to be honest I wouldn't be using consumer grade equipment with it at all.

AQuietPlace

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#3119194 22-Aug-2023 22:45

michaelmurfy:

The question I always ask is what are you trying to achieve with getting Hyperfibre? It is still somewhat of a niche and to be honest I wouldn't be using consumer grade equipment with it at all.

I am not the average home user, and for $20 more you get 2Gb symmetrical.

I have a few consumer grade PC's with 2.5Gb LAN, one of these: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWHQNP21040/QNAP-QSW-2104-2T-2-ports-10GbE-RJ45-4-ports-25GbE with a 10GbE port and 4 x 2.5GbE ports.

I run an Unraid server with 120TB storage, which has off-site backup, to my brother-in-law server in Wellington so the upload bandwidth would be great.

Bandwidth increase would be great for Unraid Plex and Emby Dockers along with Linux ISO downloads.

Finally, with WFH and kids online gaming/streaming Hyperfibre would ensure there are never any bandwidth constraints.

I guess the main reason is off-site backups of Photos, Documents and HDD Boot drive images of 4 PCs.

With my bother-in-law in Wellington, it saves any "Cloud Storage" costs as he also runs Unraid so can backup over the Wireguard VPN.

I agree, if you are a home user browsing the net, and watching YouTube, the benefit wouldn't be noticeable.

michaelmurfy

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#3119196 22-Aug-2023 22:50

In that case why not build your own router instead of going consumer grade? There are a number of decent options that have 2.5Gbit Ethernet ports these days like these:

Then simply run OPNsense on it. There are many access points these days like the Grandstream 7664 that also have 2.5Gbit Ethernet and some cheaper options for 2.5Gbit switches too.

For the price of the router quoted you can actually build a pretty good router.

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AQuietPlace

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#3119245 23-Aug-2023 08:52

michaelmurfy: In that case why not build your own router instead of going consumer grade? There are a number of decent options that have 2.5Gbit Ethernet ports these days like these:

Then simply run OPNsense on it. There are many access points these days like the Grandstream 7664 that also have 2.5Gbit Ethernet and some cheaper options for 2.5Gbit switches too.

For the price of the router quoted you can actually build a pretty good router.

Thanks for the video link, they look pretty cool project routers.

Price is a lot more than the one at PB Tech, $570 + GST without any ram or storage.

Then I need to add 2 x SFP-10G-T 10Gigabit Ethernet RJ45 Electrical Port to connect to the ONT and my Qnap, along with a Grandstream Access Point.

Vindy500

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#3119251 23-Aug-2023 09:07

They have a Wi-Fi 6E Router that looks like a perfect fit (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETNCM6010/Netcomm-CF60-Tri-Band-Wi-Fi-6E-10G-HyperFibre-Rout)

I suspect out of stock here means "we haven't got stock yet" as opposed to "we have sold out".

This unit is brand new, rolling through production now, we had it in the lab a couple of weeks back

Plugged into the 10G port via an imac pro into a Hyperfibre 8000 connection

Impressive wi-fi performance

Plugged into one of the gig lan ports

darylblake

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#3119256 23-Aug-2023 09:25

Yeh, I am actually using a little AMD EPYC Box as my VMWare Router. But my best suggestion for a router would to get something that is designed to support 10 gig, and supposedly cheap which would probably be a Mikrotik.

Nokia ONT -cat6-> VMWare Box -cat6-> CRS317-1G-16S+RM -> Rest of network.

Problem I have now is the 10Gig Ethernet SFP's the cheapest I can find them is about $100-$120. I still need to go buy the switch. Prob gonna spend about $1200+ on that and DAC Cables and SFP's.

Going to 2.5Gig is not a bad option, but its quite an expensive exercise. And your upgrade path to 10Gig is a bit poo after that.. although it might be quite some time until that is required.

AQuietPlace

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#3119266 23-Aug-2023 09:41

darylblake:

Yeh, I am actually using a little AMD EPYC Box as my VMWare Router. But my best suggestion for a router would to get something that is designed to support 10 gig, and supposedly cheap which would probably be a Mikrotik.

Nokia ONT -cat6-> VMWare Box -cat6-> CRS317-1G-16S+RM -> Rest of network.

Problem I have now is the 10Gig Ethernet SFP's the cheapest I can find them is about $100-$120. I still need to go buy the switch. Prob gonna spend about $1200+ on that and DAC Cables and SFP's.

Going to 2.5Gig is not a bad option, but its quite an expensive exercise. And your upgrade path to 10Gig is a bit poo after that.. although it might be quite some time until that is required.

I agree, which is why I asked about the $642 complete 10 Gig router unit from PB Tech.

Thanks Vindy500 for the feedback and sharing the screen shots of the performance. Ill follow up with them now on stock.

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