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MichaelNZ

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#312285 3-Apr-2024 20:41
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I live in a rural area and use Draytek bridged to Mikrotik on a VDSL connection. Our local exchange was upgraded to G.Vector a few years ago and with that a nice speed boost :-)

 

However, what I am trying to get to the bottom of is what "G.Vector" actually means, and particularly in relation to Draytek. My reading indicates it applies to 2 different standards:

 

G.993.2 "vector friendly"

 

G.993.5 "full vectoring"

 

and here is where things get murky. The DV2762 I have here says in the web UI it is vectoring. The DV130 I have on another connection says nothing in the UI but it is running a firmware which claims to support vectoring and the speed its getting is roughly inline with what I would expect for a vectored line.

 

The Draytek CLI offers no further information either.

 

I have contacted Draytek support in Australia and their official position is the 130 and 2762 only support G.993.2. To get G.993.5 I would need to shell out some cash and get a DV2765. Oddly enough, they also claim the DV167 - which is a current model - does not support G.993.5. To backup this contention the tech support rep C&P'd their website pages.

 

However, the website is not entirely consistent (depending on where one looks) whether the DV2765 supports G.993.5 or not. Furthermore, its not even clear to me whether merely having G.993.2 "vector friendly" would have given me the speed boost a few years ago.

 

While I wish I didn't even have to bother myself with this but reality is I am living in a VDSL island surrounded by a sea of ADSL2+ and wireless. And no indication of any movement on UFB. So I am willing to shell out some cash if there is another few Mbps to be had.

 

So I am putting this out there to see if I can get any feedback on this vectoring issue and ideally in relation to Draytek. Does anyone here know the specifics around the support for G.Vector for any of the models mentioned? Or is there a way to find out for certain?





WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers


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nztim
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  #3213909 3-Apr-2024 21:26
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Ask your RSP to send you stats from a line check

 

Non Vectored

 

 

 

 

actual Retransmission Mode

 

Downstream

 

N/A

 

 

 

 

 

Upstream

 

N/A

 

 

 

 

Vectored

 

 

 

 

actual Retransmission Mode

 

Downstream

 

rtx.mode.in.use

 

 

 

 

 

Upstream

 

rtx.mode.in.use

 

 

 





Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 


 
 
 
 

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MichaelNZ

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  #3213974 3-Apr-2024 22:04
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nztim:

 

Ask your RSP to send you stats from a line check

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

I have access to the information and this implies G.993.2 in this section although my gist of my post is more to try and get my head around this particular CPE.

 

 

Dsl Type
non.shdsl.opermode vdsl2.g9932.profile.17a, line.type.pots

 





WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers


MichaelNZ

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  #3214161 4-Apr-2024 13:58
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Update:

 

So it appears I was on to something.

 

A router arrived this morning (Fritzbox and I dislike it already) which supported G.993.5 and I straight away got an extra boost of over 20Mbps beyond what the so-called "vectoring" Draytek was giving me.

 

Moving forward I am looking to swap out my DV2762 and DV130 for DV2765. If anyone has one to sell please drop me a PM.





WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers




Tinkerisk
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  #3214224 4-Apr-2024 15:06
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MichaelNZ:

 

Update:

 

So it appears I was on to something.

 

A router arrived this morning (Fritzbox and I dislike it already) which supported G.993.5 and I straight away got an extra boost of over 20Mbps beyond what the so-called "vectoring" Draytek was giving me.

 

Moving forward I am looking to swap out my DV2762 and DV130 for DV2765. If anyone has one to sell please drop me a PM.

 

 

Are no DV165 (used, EOL) or DV167 available in NZ to replace the DV130?





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter


MichaelNZ

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  #3214226 4-Apr-2024 15:11
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Tinkerisk:

 

Are no DV165 (used, EOL) or DV167 available in NZ to replace the DV130?

 

 

The advice I have received is DV167 do not support G.993.5, which is odd.





WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers


MichaelNZ

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  #3214231 4-Apr-2024 15:18
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Tinkerisk:

 

That‘s wrong. It does.

 

  • ITU-T G.992.1 ADSL G.dmt, G.992.3 ADSL2 G.dmt.bis, G.992.5 ADSL2+, G.993.1 VDSL, G.993.2 VDSL2, G.993.5 Vectoring, G.997.1
  • VDSL-Profile: 8a, 8b, 8c, 8d, 12a, 12b, 17a, 30a, 35b

 

Thanks for that. I had been getting my info from Draytek Australia. I will order a DV167 and see what mileage I get.





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Tinkerisk
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  #3214233 4-Apr-2024 15:21
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MichaelNZ:

 

Tinkerisk:

 

That‘s wrong. It does.

 

  • ITU-T G.992.1 ADSL G.dmt, G.992.3 ADSL2 G.dmt.bis, G.992.5 ADSL2+, G.993.1 VDSL, G.993.2 VDSL2, G.993.5 Vectoring, G.997.1
  • VDSL-Profile: 8a, 8b, 8c, 8d, 12a, 12b, 17a, 30a, 35b

 

Thanks for that. I had been getting my info from Draytek Australia. I will order a DV167 and see what mileage I get.

 

 

I‘m sorry for accidently deleting my post but you got it. We use it in this Supervectoring mode (up to 300Mb/s) officially here in Germany. The DV166 has G.Fast but these (even higher) speeds can only be achieved max. 250m from the DSLAM.





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter




MichaelNZ

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  #3214240 4-Apr-2024 15:52
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Tinkerisk:

 

I‘m sorry for accidently deleting my post but you got it. We use it in this Supervectoring mode (up to 300Mb/s) officially here in Germany. The DV166 has G.Fast but these (even higher) speeds can only be achieved max. 250m from the DSLAM.

 

 

Its also possible the German version may have a different modem firmware. On the Australian Draytek website it offers specific local versions. This is an ongoing issue with Draytek I have found inconsistencies and lack of clarity in specs. If I could find something else (preferably also a bit cheaper) which would do the job I would use that.





WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers


Tinkerisk
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  #3214243 4-Apr-2024 15:58
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MichaelNZ:

 

Tinkerisk:

 

I‘m sorry for accidently deleting my post but you got it. We use it in this Supervectoring mode (up to 300Mb/s) officially here in Germany. The DV166 has G.Fast but these (even higher) speeds can only be achieved max. 250m from the DSLAM.

 

 

Its also possible the German version may have a different modem firmware. On the Australian Draytek website it offers specific local versions. This is an ongoing issue with Draytek I have found inconsistencies and lack of clarity in specs. If I could find something else (preferably also a bit cheaper) which would do the job I would use that.

 

 

The h/w is the same but right, you have to check the f/w (we use the Modem7 version). It seems it is on offer in NZ as well, so … but they do NOT mention G.993.5





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter


nztim
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  #3214286 4-Apr-2024 19:21
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The DV166 supports G993.5 but is not telepermitted for use in NZ (So use with caution)

 

can you show the line check from chorus with the fritz for reference

 

 

 

 





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MichaelNZ

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  #3214288 4-Apr-2024 19:33
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nztim:

 

The DV166 supports G993.5 but is not telepermitted for use in NZ (So use with caution)

 

 

Thanks for the info. For these purposes I need something available new locally.

 

FWIW I had a conversation with Draytek Australia who confirmed their position the DV167 does not support G.993.5. On this basis its possible it may be an issue of which modem code is installed?





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nztim
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  #3214293 4-Apr-2024 20:03
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MichaelNZ:

 

Thanks for the info. For these purposes I need something available new locally.

 

FWIW I had a conversation with Draytek Australia who confirmed their position the DV167 does not support G.993.5. On this basis its possible it may be an issue of which modem code is installed

 

 

DV166 is a completely different chipset than the DV167 I don;t believe the 167 supports "G.993.5" infact even the lates netcomm NF20 is only 993.2

 

I think the reason the Vigor166 is not in NZ is I believe part of the Telepermit compliance is the modem must be ADSL/VDSL compliant and the Vigor166 is G.FAST(not used in NZ) and VDSl2 but no ADSL

 

 





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Tinkerisk
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  #3215248 7-Apr-2024 09:50
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I spoke about the DV165/167 as a possible solution (and only mentioned the DV166 in passing - not as solution). The DV165/167 definitely supports G.993.5 (I have configured it several times for the Deutsche Telekom network for customers up to 250Mb/s), but apparently not the official firmware in AUS / NZ.





- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT:   thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D:    two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter


MichaelNZ

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  #3215261 7-Apr-2024 10:50
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Tinkerisk:

 

The DV165/167 definitely supports G.993.5 (I have configured it several times for the Deutsche Telekom network for customers up to 250Mb/s), but apparently not the official firmware in AUS / NZ.

 

 

Thanks for that. I thought that was likely to be the case so I will just get the DV2765. I don't know why the local DV167 firmware does not support G.993.5 as this standard is definitely supported by Chorus-

 

https://www.chorus.co.nz/themes/custom/chorus_consumer/components/sections/broadband-options/docs/VDSL2_Vectoring_white_paper_final.pdf

 

The DV2765 officially supports G.993.5 here.

 

FWIW I got a Speed Test boost of around 29Mbps by going from "vector friendly" G.992.3 to "full vector" G.993.5 These sorts of gains are definitely worth having. Out of interest I had a look at some other locally available VDSL routers and it appears the only ones which explicitly support G.993.5 are some Draytek and Fritzbox models.

 

I am on a rural exchange and got a speed boost when Vectoring was enabled and I installed the so-called "vectoring" firmware on my DV2762 and DV130 so I thought that was all there was available. But turns out that was only G.993.2 "vectoring" and a further speed boost was on the table. Put together my speed has almost doubled.

 

My connection numbers with the Fritzbox 7530 I was testing was around 104Mbps (vs. DV2762 with "vectoring" firmware around 79Mbps) giving me a very respectable 93Mbps on Speed Test. But alas the Fritzbox has an awful GUI and no bridging support. So the DV2765 is the only choice despite its hefty price tag. I will get one of these and report back on my results.





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RunningMan
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  #3215271 7-Apr-2024 11:32
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There's a couple of TP Link modems around that support G.993.5. TD-W9960 & VR300 as examples. However, they seem to have 100Mb/s ethernet ports, so that will take the edge off a little. Can't comment on bridge mode being available though.

 

EDIT: VR2100 has gigabit ethernet if you're inclined to look at TP Link.


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