Across the ditch

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alliao

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#66877 25-Aug-2010 10:36

http://www.iinet.net.au/broadband/plans.html

Can they afford it due to a second fibre?(ppc-1)

Have to say it's much more reasonable than what we have here...

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#372925 26-Aug-2010 03:12

This is generalizing a bit but...

It's scale, the small ISP's in AU are much larger than the largest ISP's in NZ, this means they have better purchasing power for hardware, bandwidth etc etc.

ISP's like Internode, iiNet, TPG are large enough to buy direct from Southern Cross (SX), Pipe, Australia Japan Cable direct and negotiate good rates. For example SX basically only sell transit in x Gbit/s. If you are a small ISP (all ISP's in NZ are small by international standards) realistically you can't buy direct from SX.

Telecom use their own subsidiary global gateway for international transit, Telstra use their parent (Telstra AU) company' subsidiary Reach.

All other ISP's in NZ (as far as I know) buy international transit from resellers eg: Vocus, Pacnet/Asianetcom, Verizon/Alternet, these companies buy large amounts of SX transit then resell and repackage into smaller amounts small ISP's can afford.

International transit is only one side of the equation. The large ISP's in AU rolled out ADSL gear in many exchanges and there are many more domestic backhaul options.

This means an ISP like TPG is vertically integrated owned ADSL equipment, backhaul and international capacity.

In NZ most ISP's are reselling a connection over Telecom adsl ports, Telecom backhaul. Orcon, Vodafone, Telstra, Slingshot have only installed gear in some exchanges and used different backhaul like vector and fx networks, but they have no gear in cabinets currently (they can't afford it).

Cabinetisation is a paradox, it's needed to shorten the length of copper between you and the termination and thus improve sync speeds.

However each cabinet only serves a few hundred houses, this means it's pretty much never going to be economically viable to have multiple providers install expensive DSL equipment in cabinets (for a start there isn't room, Telecom gear takes up 1/3 to 2/3 of the space).

Telecom spent a lot of money installing cabinets everywhere because the government set a legal obligation/requirement to improve connection speeds in NZ.

The commerce commission sets regulated pricing on what other ISP's have to pay to put their own gear in these cabinets and on other things like what price Telecom has to resell their own adsl ports.

It's an interesting dilemma, Telecom can be criticized for under investing pre 2000 and milking the old copper network.

On the other side... imagine you built a pool at your place then they government came a long as said hey that pool you built, no one else around has a pool you are legal required to let all your neighbours use this pool for $x month.

That would kind of put your investors off giving you the money to build more pools everywhere.

CADMAX

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#372955 26-Aug-2010 08:18

but on the other side we owned Telecom! so that pool is a public pool.

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ockel

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#372967 26-Aug-2010 08:35

CADMAX: but on the other side we owned Telecom! so that pool is a public pool.

To continue the analogy - the council owned the pool but decided it didnt know anything about pools or swimming so it sold it. So it WAS a public pool but is now a private pool.

Those investors that chipped in to buy the pool and are being told that entry prices can only go up at CPI and any new slides or facilities that are built must be opened up to anyone at dictated prices are finding that the terms under which they chipped in to buy the pool arent whjat they thought they were.

So they are reluctant to allow the building of any further pools or facilities. Of course board/management think that breaking up the complex into PoolCo and WaterCo will be a good idea but only if they are allowed to reline the pool and have regulations on maintaining/using the water relaxed.

Meanwhile the investors scratch their heads and wonder if Pool and Water owned separately are better than together especially after the relining project.

In other news the public is increasingly annoyed that the toll-road to the pool is being overpriced and want a second toll road built.

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SteveON

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#373012 26-Aug-2010 09:59

This comes up too often...

NZ'ers spend all their lives looking outside in ore at the rest of the world. Be content at what you have. For a country with the same population as an average city in Australia we are doing BLOODY well!

raab

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#373116 26-Aug-2010 13:51

Psht, whatever.

We'll be moving over to Aus when the time is right for us.

I'll take better salary, better internet, better weather and putting up with australian accents than spending anymore time in this country..

gehenna

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#373142 26-Aug-2010 14:46

raab: Psht, whatever.

We'll be moving over to Aus when the time is right for us.

I'll take better salary, better internet, better weather and putting up with australian accents than spending anymore time in this country..

lived there twice, came back twice. the people are horrible.

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SteveON

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#373144 26-Aug-2010 14:56

Its common, people think they have it crap, make the move then come back. Personally I want to make the move but not for the same motivation as others and plan to go further than Australia. Most people count Australia as their OE... "Yay"...

alliao

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#373210 26-Aug-2010 16:57

I was only using australia as an example, since they have somewhat similar population density to NZ..

So the idea goes like what's maybe viable for them should be rather viable for us too.

I suppose our 2nd fibre is coming in the form of Pacific Fibre, though that's not due till 2013..

I too have left NZ once, worked in London for two years, earned around 500 quid per week and internet only costs 14.. my house did around 2TB/month. But I understand UK's much closer to US and obviously is advantageous financially and geographically.

Just think NZ could be better that's all, after all it's already pretty bloody good. Why not at this front too?

edit: add link to Pacific Fibre :)

Ragnor

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#373399 26-Aug-2010 22:59

It could only be better if more companies decided to build a lot more competing infrastructure.. this takes $$$ and no one it putting up any really especially in the current economic climate.

gehenna

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#373427 27-Aug-2010 07:52

i made the move the first time for a working/partying holiday. succeeded in that regard :)

2nd time I was offered work there and given my partner is a newly graduated teacher that needs to work for 2 years to become registered in NZ, and given in Vic that registration only takes 1 year and is transferrable to NZ, we figured it would be a good way to fasttrack that while i checked out the job. she couldn't get work after 90+ applications, my job wasn't great, so here we are again.

along the way we discovered the certian "charm" of the australian people. generalising of course, but that was our "general" experience.

scuwp

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#373465 27-Aug-2010 10:06

raab: Psht, whatever.

We'll be moving over to Aus when the time is right for us.

I'll take better salary, better internet, better weather and putting up with australian accents than spending anymore time in this country..

Cool, more space for the rest of us who want to live here. If we can get a few more to leave there will be less people using up bandwidth so things will improve no end :-)

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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ockel

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#373468 27-Aug-2010 10:12

raab: Psht, whatever.

We'll be moving over to Aus when the time is right for us.

I'll take better salary, better internet, better weather and putting up with australian accents than spending anymore time in this country..

To quote Muldoon:

“New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia raise the IQ of both countries.”

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

SteveON

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#373475 27-Aug-2010 10:23

ockel:
raab: Psht, whatever.

We'll be moving over to Aus when the time is right for us.

I'll take better salary, better internet, better weather and putting up with australian accents than spending anymore time in this country..

To quote Muldoon:

“New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia raise the IQ of both countries.”

Clazziquai

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#376042 2-Sep-2010 23:42

Paying $60 for a measly 20gb... is a bit excessive and if I upgrade to $80 for 40gb. It becomes more expensive. woot!....

SteveON: This comes up too often...

NZ'ers spend all their lives looking outside in ore at the rest of the world. Be content at what you have. For a country with the same population as an average city in Australia we are doing BLOODY well!

While other countries are continually lowering their prices. The price of internet in New Zealand is constantly increasing. Which is totally unfair. LOL Oh but that's right, having internet in New Zealand is a privilege.

@Ragnor
Thanks for that post, that was really insightful.

Ragnor

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#376048 2-Sep-2010 23:58

If we believe fast broadband is a public good and beneficial to everyone and the economy (like roads) the government should go all in and copy a model like Singapore's.

If we believe the government will just screw things up (look at the track record so far) then they should get the hell out of the way, stop interfering in pricing and the market via regulation and instead focus on fast tracking all resource consents to do with building fibre and mobile/wireless towers and let supply and demand work it's magic.

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