ADSL wiring questions (new jackpoint, master filter, general wiring upgrade)

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › ADSL wiring questions (new jackpoint, master filter, general wiring upgrade)

powderedtoastman

26 posts

Geek

#73310 11-Dec-2010 13:25

The phone wiring in our house is fairly old and in need of an upgrade, but I'm looking for a bit of advice on the best way to proceed.

Currently it seems to work like this: the demarc point is a cheap little box on the side of the house, where the line in is joined (with gel connectors) to two other cables - one of these is a short run down to a two-wire jackpoint that was installed by sky at some point. The other cable is the one that goes to the other two jacks in the house (there are only 3 in total). This is a heavy old twisted cable with two solid cores; I would guess it's actually a grease-filled aerial lead-in cable. This runs through the attic, drops down all the way under the house, runs a few feet and goes back up a wall (so there's a fair amount of it) in the hallway. It ends in a little box with a couple 1.5A fuses, and from here regular grey phone cable (cat3?) goes a couple feet down to an old 3 wire master jackpoint. Nothing is plugged in here because it's not a convenient spot for anything. The third jack comes off this master, and is used for our ADSL via plug-in filter.

Because my computer is in a different room than the modem, I ran a fairly short stretch of cat6 cable under the house to my office. I didn't wire in faceplates for it - I made use of convenient gaps in the baseboard. Ideally I would like to have another phone jack installed in my office so the modem can be plugged in there (and the router, switch, etc), and keep the cable I ran under the house, but install a couple of proper faceplates for it at either end. In addition to this, I have a master filter which I'd like to install. I realize there are probably several different options depending on how many changes I want to make, and it would be great to hear what the alternatives are. I know I could probably have all the wiring redone following the current best practices (e.g. TCF code of practice 2010?), or only upgrade what is absolutely necessary. I think at least I'd want to change the 3-wire master to a 2-wire.

I should also mention that I'm not planning on doing the work myself; I'm planning on getting an electrician in, so any recommendations on electricians who know how to do phone/data stuff well would be appreciated. Thanks.

PS - ADSL connection is pretty good already but I'm < 1km to the exchange, and it could probably be even better with the filter and wiring improvements.

1 | 2

8954 posts

Uber Geek

#415898 11-Dec-2010 16:18

In basic terms, if what you are trying to achieve is a faster or more stable ADSL connection, my suggestion would be to place your master filter at the demarc, and run a new cable from there to whereever it is you want to place your modem.

That way, the modem will get the best possible line. and you can locate it where you need it to be. You will then be able to ditch the cat6e run from the modem back to the office, and remove the plug in filter (by the way, which should currently be on any outlet that has a phone plugged in, not the modem).

Where abouts in the country are you? There are several very capable installers who post on this board...

HTH.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#415942 11-Dec-2010 19:03

What sync rates are you getting on the dsl modem at present?

I agree you need to remove any master sockets (or at least cut off the cap), but I'd hate you see you spend a truck load for no improvement... having said that, I did one just yesterday and improved the performance from 1600 --> 3900... didn't think that was a waste of time and neither did the customer who can now run a VoIP service on it.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

powderedtoastman

26 posts

Geek

#415954 11-Dec-2010 19:55

Thanks RunningMan. I will definitely run new cable from the master filter to a new jackpoint in my office for the modem, as you recommend.
The reason I'd keep the cat6 cable I mentioned is because I have computers, switches, etc. at both ends (not just the modem).

My main goal is to just have the master filter installed and a new jackpoint in my office to relocate the modem there, but I figured while the wiring was being worked on it might be a good time to address other shortcomings and upgrade for future needs.

I'm in Auckland on the north shore. The companies I was considering were: hall electrical, vital sparx, can-do electrical, rhino electrical, or leck electrical. I know there are some very good installers on geekzone though, so that's an idea.

powderedtoastman

26 posts

Geek

#415956 11-Dec-2010 19:57

DonGould - My rates right now are 15Mb/s down and 1 up, so I don't have much to complain about. Any improvement would be welcomed of course (my wife works full time from home on a remote connection, so it's nice to have the connection as good as it can be).

RunningMan

8954 posts

Uber Geek

#415962 11-Dec-2010 20:17

powderedtoastman:
My main goal is to just have the master filter installed and a new jackpoint in my office to relocate the modem there, but I figured while the wiring was being worked on it might be a good time to address other shortcomings and upgrade for future needs.

I'm in Auckland on the north shore. The companies I was considering were: hall electrical, vital sparx, can-do electrical, rhino electrical, or leck electrical. I know there are some very good installers on geekzone though, so that's an idea.

Installing the dedicated filter / ADSL jackpoint is the easiest and quickest improvement you will get.

You could also convert the remainder of the house to a 2 wire system for the exisiting analogue phones, but in all reality you will probably not see a huge benefit from having done this, assuming there are no current problems with the phone(s).

The next step up is really a structered cabling system with a central patch panel etc. with outlets that can then be used for whatever service you want to put down the cable. Going down that path will be future proofing the dwelling, and will show long term benefits, but you will outlay quite a bit of money to do this, with not a lot of short term gain.

I guess it all comes down to exactly what your goals are, and how much money you wnat to throw at it...

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#415964 11-Dec-2010 20:21

powderedtoastman: DonGould - My rates right now are 15Mb/s down and 1 up, so I don't have much to complain about. Any improvement would be welcomed of course (my wife works full time from home on a remote connection, so it's nice to have the connection as good as it can be).

15m at 1km... ya, not sure how much more improvement you'd get, but I completely agree with you now I understand your wife is using it for business. If you can sneek even a mbit from it then it's worth doing isn't it if you're also doing other downloading else where in the house at the same time.

As you can write it off as a business expense and it will add some (minimal) value to the house at the same time, well worth it.

Support the GZ techs :) Nice.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#415976 11-Dec-2010 21:03

http://www.internode.on.net/support/guides/internet_access/broadband_adsl/optimising_adsl2_/

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/adsl/extreme/performance/

Ok... now I'm going to stand corrected... according to Internode you should get almost 20+mbit at that range, there's some really good info on those links.

HTH

D

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

Sharesies kids

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#415983 11-Dec-2010 21:50

DonGould: http://www.internode.on.net/support/guides/internet_access/broadband_adsl/optimising_adsl2_/

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/adsl/extreme/performance/

Ok... now I'm going to stand corrected... according to Internode you should get almost 20+mbit at that range, there's some really good info on those links.

HTH

D

Maximum speeds depend entirely on the noise margins used. Telecom still use -12dB noise margins as their default profile. Some ISP's such as Orcon and Vodafone run lower noise margins on their ULL gear which results in potentially fractionally higher sync speeds and actual connection speeds but with (arguably) a potential reduction in connection stability.

powderedtoastman

26 posts

Geek

#415995 11-Dec-2010 22:14

Thanks DonGould and sbiddle. I do think there's probably a bit more speed I can get out of the connection. Installing the master filter isn't essential for me or anything, but since I already have one (just never got around to figuring out how to put it in myself), I figure I ought to use it.

RunningMan - I think I will probably hold off on getting a patch panel put in, but I might at some point, so I guess I need to think about where it would go and what rooms would have what, so that I don't make more work for myself later on.

Any recommendations for Auckland-based installers / geekzone regulars?

coffeebaron

6231 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#416176 12-Dec-2010 15:57

powderedtoastman: Any recommendations for Auckland-based installers / geekzone regulars?

I can do this for you. Send me a PM (email) with some contact details if you would like me to drop by and discuss some options / costs etc.

Fraser

Rural IT and Broadband support.

Broadband troubleshooting and master filter installs.
Starlink installer - one month free: https://www.starlink.com/?referral=RC-32845-88860-71
Wi-Fi and networking
Cel-Fi supply and installer - boost your mobile phone coverage legally

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com

webwat

2036 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#416321 13-Dec-2010 00:35

Do you have a convenient area where a cupboard or shelf could house your modem as well as being a central point for phone wiring? Your office might become this central point if there's an easy pathway to the demarc. This point could upgrade to a wall cabinet for the patch panel/switch in future, but a shelf to mount the master filter and things now would be a start. Put that into my plastic box with Cat5e outlets and you have a "Service Delivery Point" on your shelf connecting computers in other rooms.

The central point would need a path to get phone wiring under the house to the jackpoints, plus take the incoming phone wire from the demarc/outdoor box. Sky jack should run from this point and a new 2-wire jack to handle the different guage wires. If the jack in the hallway is really annoying then you could pull out the old jacks, but I suggest just bypassing the ceiling wire to the hallway for now. I could have a look if you want to PM me.

Time to find a new industry!

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#416373 13-Dec-2010 08:56

Is there a GZ/NZ cab list or mailing list where ppl can just post "want help in town/sub"?

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

powderedtoastman

26 posts

Geek

#416728 13-Dec-2010 20:33

webwat: Do you have a convenient area where a cupboard or shelf could house your modem as well as being a central point for phone wiring? Your office might become this central point if there's an easy pathway to the demarc. This point could upgrade to a wall cabinet for the patch panel/switch in future, but a shelf to mount the master filter and things now would be a start. Put that into my plastic box with Cat5e outlets and you have a "Service Delivery Point" on your shelf connecting computers in other rooms.

The central point would need a path to get phone wiring under the house to the jackpoints, plus take the incoming phone wire from the demarc/outdoor box. Sky jack should run from this point and a new 2-wire jack to handle the different guage wires. If the jack in the hallway is really annoying then you could pull out the old jacks, but I suggest just bypassing the ceiling wire to the hallway for now. I could have a look if you want to PM me.

My office is pretty much the farthest point in the house from the demarc (diagonally opposite along the space diagonal), although the house isn't huge so it's not that far in absolute terms. There is a more central room with a closet (on the opposite side of the wall where the current master jackpoint is), which could also work. Only 3 rooms at most would need RJ11 + RJ45 jacks really, so star wiring could be overkill, I'm not sure.

Thanks for the offers coffeebaron and webwat. And DonGould, I think a forum or mailing list for those looking for installers on GZ could be useful.

webwat

2036 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#417907 16-Dec-2010 00:34

Perhaps you can PM me your email address since your geekzone profile blocks PM replies. I'm not an electrician but after 6:30 is fine for me if we get in before my early holiday.

Time to find a new industry!

coffeebaron

6231 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#418087 16-Dec-2010 13:11

webwat: Perhaps you can PM me your email address since your geekzone profile blocks PM replies.

Same, or email me direct. Just chuck my user name in front of at geekzonemail dot com and it should get through.

Rural IT and Broadband support.

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com

1 | 2