VDSL2 vs UFB?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › VDSL2 vs UFB?

m00sie

43 posts

Geek

Topic # 83687 20-May-2011 12:57

Can someone please sum up why VDSL2 and UFB (FTTP/FTTH) are both being rolled out simultaneously?

Does it have something to do with the fact that fibre to the home/premises will not be available for most of NZ for another 5-7 years? (so VDSL2 is sort of an interim measure to up speeds until everyone has fibre).

In most of the literature I have read, FTTP/FTTH 'guarantees' speeds of at least 100mbs. Will most of NZ (urban at least) be able to obtain these speeds?

So many questions that I just can't answer lol would appreciate any insight :)

1 | 2

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157

UberGroup

Reply # 471549 20-May-2011 13:03

VDSL is extremely distance limited, unless you are under 500m's away from the VDSL2 dslam then you are going to get under 40mbit line sync speeds. You may get alot less the further away you are but Telecom will do a truck roll to fix it if your line sync is less than 15/5mbit. It's bandwidth is alot more variable than UFB. There is also the matter of the NNI from Telecom to the ISP, I dont know what figures they are offering

With UFB you can be upto 40km away from the OLT and you're speeds are going to be more stable to the ISP since UFB is a max of 24:1 split which gives you effectively 100% CIR on a 100/50mbit circuit. The NNI handoff is also huge, It's cost effective for an ISP to get a big enough NNI to have no contention at the handover point

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

raytaylor

3224 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 624

Trusted

Reply # 471692 20-May-2011 18:34

UFB is a government loan based scheme.
VDSL is telecom or the local ISP's method of keeping up and saying "hey, we are already as good as fibre"

And most people wont be able to afford the install cost of UFB / Fibre which could be anything from $500 to over $1000 depending upon the trenching work needing to be done.

Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here

Beccara

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157

UberGroup

Reply # 471704 20-May-2011 18:59

Ummm what? Thats so very very wrong. There is no install cost to the client

Ragnor

8027 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 387

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 471712 20-May-2011 19:50

A few years ago now the last labour government when they regulated Telecom via operational separation gave Telecom a legal obligation to deliver >10Mbit.

Telecom spent around $1.4 billion on upgrading exchanges with ADSL2+ and deploying cabinets to shorten line distances (Fibre to the node or FTTN).

When selecting the gear to go into the exchanges/cabinets they chose ISAM's and line cards that support both ASDL2+ and VDSL2.

VDSL2 is pretty much ready to go now. UFB for most people is many many years away.

We've been using copper wiring for the "last mile" for 50 years it's we're starting to come up against the physical limitations of the medium.

Fibre optics are the future.

Beccara

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157

UberGroup

Reply # 471713 20-May-2011 19:52

We shall see about the UFB for most people statement, NP and Well networks are both deploying already. NorthPower alone has a not-small amount of homes connected.

We shall see the time frames for whoever wins the rest

Glazza

260 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Trusted

Reply # 471755 20-May-2011 21:36

raytaylor: And most people wont be able to afford the install cost of UFB / Fibre which could be anything from $500 to over $1000 depending upon the trenching work needing to be done.

You cant afford nothing? Interesting.

raytaylor

3224 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 624

Trusted

Reply # 471756 20-May-2011 21:38

Sorry bad choice of words. I thought we were still expecting that to get fibre installed into a premesis under UFB there would be install costs.

Have they regulated that it carries no installation cost to the consumer for the trenching from the cabinet to the house?

Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here

Ragnor

8027 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 387

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 471799 21-May-2011 00:11

Beccara: We shall see about the UFB for most people statement, NP and Well networks are both deploying already. NorthPower alone has a not-small amount of homes connected.

We shall see the time frames for whoever wins the rest

Well for example Auckland is 1/4 of NZ population alone, the winning bidder hasn't been chosen yet and the work required is going to be massive.

Remember can't just string the fibre on overhead lines because there aren't overhead power lines any more in many suburbs.

mthand

148 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 471824 21-May-2011 07:43

I'm pretty sure that I read that the homeowner needed to have the trench dug out to the street, and inspected by Chorus to enable laying of fibre.

The provider would then pay for the delivery to the ETP. The homeowner needs to supply the star wiring box to house the RGW and ONT, and run 3 min cat5e to the ETP.

Since we live down a long concrete right-of-way, I'm hoping they will hide the trenching cost for me in a council-led scheme to get all the overhead wires put underground, like they have been doing in a FTTH trial in Manurewa.

sbiddle

26922 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6356

Moderator

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

Reply # 471837 21-May-2011 09:07

The UFB rollout extends as far as the pole or box on the street. Getting the cable to the house will be the role of the retail service provider who then has to decide how they're going to recover the costs of the install.

This differs to Australia where the NBN rollout includes running cable to the home, something that's been pretty controversial due to consent required from home owners to do this, and in early rollouts around 50% of people not granting this. This lead to talk of law changes forcing people to provide access to their property for the purpose of the installation.

Beccara

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157

UberGroup

Reply # 471845 21-May-2011 09:56

Jesus christ that's wrong wrong wrong.

The LFC runs the connection to the house, Upto 30 or 50m's away from the pole. They also run it into the house where the home owner wants it and mount it along with the ONT. There is no charge to the end user and no charge to the RSP.

Get you're facts straight before mouthing off with FUD, I work for an ISP on an active UFB funded network, We have never and our clients have never been charged for the install from the pole/duct.

No charges to clients for installs from anyone, It's built into the UFB cost

mthand

148 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 471865 21-May-2011 10:45

The LFC runs the connection to the house, Upto 30 or 50m's away from the pole. They also run it into the house where the home owner wants it and mount it along with the ONT. There is no charge to the end user and no charge to the RSP.

No charges to clients for installs from anyone, It's built into the UFB cost

Just to get my "facts straight", the UFB funding completely covers the complete installation, and there is no need to recoup costs (from the user) as sbiddle has stated above?

Get you're facts straight before mouthing off with FUD, I work for an ISP on an active UFB funded network, We have never and our clients have never been charged for the install from the pole/duct.

Stop being so sensitive. I said that it was something I had read, and I was right. Re-reading it now it refers to new homes, not existing ones.

http://www.chorus.co.nz/f818,55164/Fibre_Ready_Brochure.pdf

Your facts and someone else's facts will always differ, and it's a matter of interpretation. It's great that you can offer your professional opinion, and it is valued by me personally. Not your flaming though.

Beccara

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157

UberGroup

Reply # 471871 21-May-2011 11:02

Sorry that was more directed at sbiddle. You're fine since you prefix the whole thing with "I'm pretty sure", I'm just getting tired of people on here who dont have a clue spouting off "facts", There are only a handful of people on this forum who can speak about the UFB with any sort of authority.

Back on topic. Thats correct, the UFB funds the install into the house, like I said I can't remember right now if that was 30m or 50m from the pole. They will route the fibre however you like inside the house and mount where you want.

There is no charge to the user or the ISP for this.

Also that PDF reads like it's geared towards Telecom's non-UFB fibre network

m00sie

43 posts

Geek

Reply # 471938 21-May-2011 16:35

Thanks for all the replies :)

It is my understanding that the connection from the curb to the home will cost the ISP, who will probably put that back on the customer (1-2k per house dependent on what they have to dig up to lay the cable) - this comes from a very reliable source, however is only one companies interpretation - perhaps they intend to charge their customers?

The concern then being how many will want to pay the 1-2k for faster broadband when a large number of users only require a few GB's and aren't overly concerned about speeds.

raytaylor

3224 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 624

Trusted

Reply # 471944 21-May-2011 16:44

Back on topic. Thats correct, the UFB funds the install into the house, like I said I can't remember right now if that was 30m or 50m from the pole. They will route the fibre however you like inside the house and mount where you want.

There is no charge to the user or the ISP for this.

Can you confirm for me is the UFB funded installation cost is for all LFC's or is it part of the deal your LFC happened to offer to get the funding?

Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here

1 | 2