Will VDSL2 be worthwhile if I only get 9.5/0.8 Mbps on ADSL2+?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Will VDSL2 be worthwhile if I only get 9.5/0.8 Mbps on ADSL2+?

snowfly

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Ultimate Geek

#96282 24-Jan-2012 12:27

Currently contemplating getting VSDL2 via the advertised HD deal, but not sure whether my line will offer such an advantage.
As not getting very good speeds on ADSL2+.

Presently on Xnet with ADSL2+, and modem (linksys AG241) reports:
Downstream Rate:    9449 Kbps
Upstream Rate:       865 Kbps
Downstream Margin:    12 db
Upstream Margin:    12 db
Downstream Line Attenuation:    24
Upstream Line Attenuation:    13
Downstream Transmit Power:    0
Upstream Transmit Power:    0

Speed test reports 7.5 Mbps down, 0.5 MBps up, at http://www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz/

House was re-wrired approx 6 years ago, with cat5 cable run from Telecom termination / demarc point, to the phone points in the house.

VSDL2 is available to my address according to the telecom wholesale maps, and approx 500m (walk) from the house to the Spotswood Exchange (SWO) in New Plymouth.

Has anyone with similar ADSL2+ speeds upgraded to VSDL and received anything near VSDL speeds? (30Mbps down / 10Mbps up)

Does ADSL2+ speeds translate into VSDL2 speeds?
e.g. could something else be wrong in the line between our house and the exchange that effects ADSL2, which would also effect VSDL if I upgraded?
And if I upgrade to VSDL2, could I expect speeds like 15Mbps down, 5Mbps up? (e.g. partial service)

Thinking of getting the DrayTek Vigor2750, and pairing with a TP-Link TL-WR1043ND Wireless-N AP.

Any tips?

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1377 posts

Uber Geek

#572690 24-Jan-2012 12:32

Wow i was literally about to ask this same question and also have very similar line stats to you. Although i sync higher but seem to perform worse than you on speedtests (also on xnet).

nickb800

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#572693 24-Jan-2012 12:34

My understanding is that you must have less than 12db downstream line attenuation to be considered for VDSL2, so on that basis you wont be able to get it.

See http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=89171&page_no=2

cyril7

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#572696 24-Jan-2012 12:36

Hi, if that 24dB DS attenuation is correct then there is no way you will allowed to sign up for VDSL2. 9.5Mb/s on 24dB is a bit under best case but not so far as to be considered bad. However what is not know is if the 24dB is correct or not.

Cheers
Cyril

snowfly

543 posts

Ultimate Geek

#572706 24-Jan-2012 12:51

BUGGER! That sucks.
Anyone know as to why I could have a bad downstream Attenuation?

I have tested my connection with 3 different ADSL modems, PT-3812 (ADSL), Dynalink RTA1320V6 (ADSL2+), and Linksys AG241 (ADSL2+)
And all 3 reported downstream attenuation of approx 22-24, and upsteam attenuation of approx 12-14

Also tested at all jackpoints around the house, including the master jack point by the telecom termination point, same results.

How can I get a better line so I can get VSDL2?
Log a fault with current ISP (xnet) / chorus?

As my work would be so much easier/quicker with VSDL2 - working as an IT developer full time from home with offices in Sydney, Bozeman USA, and Reading UK, so constantly connected via VPN and transferring large files, and running Apps over the connection.

So keen to try anything to get better internet, surely at only 500M from the exchange it must be possible??

cyril7

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#572708 24-Jan-2012 12:54

Hi, the most likely reason is the cable wanders 1km up the other side of the road then back down your side, dont forget that in the old days pre DSL cables were layed out against a different set of requirements compared to how a new sub division might be layed out today.

you may want to do a full isolation test at the demarc if you want to see if there is some other issue in your house wiring thats inflating attenuation (reducing sync speed), if that results in no improvement then you are probably stuck with what you have.

Cyril

Skolink

1081 posts

Uber Geek

#572733 24-Jan-2012 13:25

snowfly: Also tested at all jackpoints around the house, including the master jack point by the telecom termination point, same results.

So you don't have a splitter installed at the master jack point? Installing one may help (it doubled the speed at my parents' house).
As Cyril said, open up your master jack point, and pull off all the cables except the incoming line from the street. If it makes a significant difference, then a master splitter will definitely help.

DjShadow

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#572738 24-Jan-2012 13:34

This might help provide a clue about if VDSL2, if you are in the shaded green area but its only an indication

http://www.chorus.co.nz/service-availability-tool

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

DonGould

3892 posts

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#572739 24-Jan-2012 13:36

cyril7: Hi, the most likely reason is the cable wanders 1km up the other side of the road then back down your side, dont forget that in the old days pre DSL cables were layed out against a different set of requirements compared to how a new sub division might be layed out today.

you may want to do a full isolation test at the demarc if you want to see if there is some other issue in your house wiring thats inflating attenuation (reducing sync speed), if that results in no improvement then you are probably stuck with what you have.

Cyril

^^what he said and also... you need to remove the house wiring from the question as suggested, also there was a big thread on here about a customer with a problem that we suspect is caused by a poor quality lead in from the street.

So you also want Chorus to do a test for you at the road before the lead in after they've checked the cable path for you on the network maps.

In my area I wouldn't expect to get a good service on the Chorus network after seeing the network map - cable that's over 60 years old and has T's in it all over the place.

That's not to say that Chorus is bad, that's not the point. The point in my case is that's what was installed to do a job (provide phone service) in a dynamic way 60 years ago.

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snowfly

543 posts

Ultimate Geek

#572740 24-Jan-2012 13:39

Skolink:
snowfly: Also tested at all jackpoints around the house, including the master jack point by the telecom termination point, same results.

So you don't have a splitter installed at the master jack point? Installing one may help (it doubled the speed at my parents' house).
As Cyril said, open up your master jack point, and pull off all the cables except the incoming line from the street. If it makes a significant difference, then a master splitter will definitely help.

I have Naked DSL, so modem is plugged straight into jack, but yes I have tried a small phone/data splitter plugged into the jack first, same result.

Ben at Hosting Direct kindly ran a test on my line to check if VSDL2 could be run, unfortunately this result came back negative.
Results below.

So what doors do I have to knock on to get the line investigated / fixed by Chorus??

WVS 0 = VDSL2...

Line test results directly from exchange:
Result Negative For
WVS 0, NGA Evolve 1, NGA Evolve 2, NGA Evolve 3, NGA Evolve 4, NGA Evolve 5, NGA Business 1, NGA Business 2, NGA Education 1, NGA Education 2, NGA Education 3

Result Positive For
BUBA FS/FS, EUBA 40, EUBA 90, EUBA 0, EUBA 180, BUBA 256/128

FULL LOG:

Serving LWC Name    SWO - MDF
HDB3 Present in Binder    No
Line Attenuation    14 - 14 dB
Download Rate Range    ADSL2+: 12.8 - 12.8 Mb/s, VDSL2: 14.1 - 14.1 Mb/s
Upload Rate Range    ADSL2+: 1.1 - 1.1 Mb/s, VDSL2: 1.3 - 1.3 Mb/s
Upload > 300kb/s    No
Urbanisation Level    Urban
Result Positive For    BUBA FS/FS, EUBA 40, EUBA 90, EUBA 0, EUBA 180, BUBA 256/128
Result Negative For    WVS 0, NGA Evolve 1, NGA Evolve 2, NGA Evolve 3, NGA Evolve 4, NGA Evolve 5, NGA Business 1, NGA Business 2, NGA Education 1, NGA Education 2, NGA Education 3
Result Inconclusive For
DSL Available at LWC    Yes
Access Types    Copper
Messages    ADSL2+, VDSL2; Connected UBA ASIDs 1624350589; Multipoint terminal detected. Min and Max attenuation may differ

sbiddle

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#572744 24-Jan-2012 13:46

snowfly: So what doors do I have to knock on to get the line investigated / fixed by Chorus??

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. Your line simply isn't capable of supporting it.

Shoes2468

785 posts

Ultimate Geek

#572746 24-Jan-2012 13:51

I have Naked DSL, so modem is plugged straight into jack, but yes I have tried a small phone/data splitter plugged into the jack first, same result.

A plug in phone filter is NOT the same as a master filter.
As said in previous posts you need to either do and isolation test on the telecom master jack (demarc point) by disconnecting the cables to the rest of the house only leaving the cables to the street, OR install a master filter instead, at this point only then will you be able to achieve maximum performance. Then if you are unable to achieve a good enough connection for VDSL at least you will have the best ADSL2+ performance you can achieve at your property.

snowfly

543 posts

Ultimate Geek

#572749 24-Jan-2012 13:56

DonGould: ^^what he said and also... you need to remove the house wiring from the question as suggested, also there was a big thread on here about a customer with a problem that we suspect is caused by a poor quality lead in from the street.

So you also want Chorus to do a test for you at the road before the lead in after they've checked the cable path for you on the network maps.

In my area I wouldn't expect to get a good service on the Chorus network after seeing the network map - cable that's over 60 years old and has T's in it all over the place.

That's not to say that Chorus is bad, that's not the point. The point in my case is that's what was installed to do a job (provide phone service) in a dynamic way 60 years ago.

I have done several isolation tests (at master jack with everything else unplugged), all very similar results.

I am interested to know how to request Chorus to do a road side test?
As this would check if the cable coming from the road side to the property is at fault.
I am up a back section, approx 40-50m driveway from the road.

From my investigation, an underground line comes up a power pole (on our section 40-50m back from road).
On that pole, there is a white box with the 1 entry line, and 4 lines coming out, 1 for our property (that disappears back underground to our garage), and 3 other lines for the 3 neighbouring houses (all aerial cables).

snowfly

543 posts

Ultimate Geek

#572751 24-Jan-2012 14:00

Shoes2468:
A plug in phone filter is NOT the same as a master filter.
As said in previous posts you need to either do and isolation test on the telecom master jack (demarc point) by disconnecting the cables to the rest of the house only leaving the cables to the street, OR install a master filter instead, at this point only then will you be able to achieve maximum performance. Then if you are unable to achieve a good enough connection for VDSL at least you will have the best ADSL2+ performance you can achieve at your property.

Thanks for clearing up my confusion (regarding filter), yes I have done a full isolation test, as above, same results.

I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback, appears there is not much I can do, which is a real shame.
Although still interested in whether the line setup (I described above) is causing any problems, and whether chorus can do a road test to verify this or not.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#572763 24-Jan-2012 14:27

snowfly:

I have done several isolation tests (at master jack with everything else unplugged), all very similar results.

I am interested to know how to request Chorus to do a road side test?
As this would check if the cable coming from the road side to the property is at fault.
I am up a back section, approx 40-50m driveway from the road.

From my investigation, an underground line comes up a power pole (on our section 40-50m back from road).
On that pole, there is a white box with the 1 entry line, and 4 lines coming out, 1 for our property (that disappears back underground to our garage), and 3 other lines for the 3 neighbouring houses (all aerial cables).

You have not proven out the housing wiring so far from what I can tell.

Using my example above, what you have done is a test at the first point, with no devices in the second and third points (red wire).

What you need to do is a test without the red wire connecting the rest of the house wiring to the demarcation point. This will prove that your problem is not being caused by issues with the wiring in your house.

I am not saying that your house wiring is faulty. The fact that you are getting a 10/1 service on it does suggest that it doesn't produce a fault condition.

What I am saying is that it might be ok for phones and ok for ADSL2+ (with a 10/1 sync) but having an impact on the modems ability to get more than 10/1 sync.

So, you need to isolate the house wiring from the demarc point to prove that the internal wiring is not causing any issues.

While you have no phones in the other sockets, it is still possible, as I understand it, for the wiring and sockets to cause reflections back down the line that throws out the modems ability to attain a faster sync.

Once you have proven this issue out then you can then focus on the lead in, a task that you will need Chorus to work with you on as the cable from the street (lead in) is considered to be part of their network. You should expect that this will cost you some money to have done. I would budget for at least 2 hours of their time (at what ever their rate is) to have this work done. However, as you're currently getting just under the govt mandate of 10mb down, you may be able to have a conversation with them about this.

After you have proven the house wiring out, I would pursue your ISP to work with Chorus to understand the cable layout in your street to understand what you cable length is back to the DSL line card.

sbiddle and cyril7 are experts in this area, so I would also wait to see if either of them have any comments in response to my suggestions/advice as well.
While I know a bit about it, and draw pretty pictures, they really are the experts.

HTH

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Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

snowfly

543 posts

Ultimate Geek

#572828 24-Jan-2012 16:17

DonGould:
What you need to do is a test without the red wire connecting the rest of the house wiring to the demarcation point. This will prove that your problem is not being caused by issues with the wiring in your house.

I am not saying that your house wiring is faulty. The fact that you are getting a 10/1 service on it does suggest that it doesn't produce a fault condition.

What I am saying is that it might be ok for phones and ok for ADSL2+ (with a 10/1 sync) but having an impact on the modems ability to get more than 10/1 sync.

So, you need to isolate the house wiring from the demarc point to prove that the internal wiring is not causing any issues.

Thanks Don.
I have also done as you have recommended, disconnected the cat5 cable (1 pair) from the master jack point, and tested 2 different ADSL2+ modems (with different cables).
But still get the same results, approx 24 dB downstream Attenuation, and approx 13 dB up.
Ran multiple tests.

This is how the line looked to me:

Black Underground Telecom cable (2 twisted pair: black/red [unused], white/blue)
\/
Demarc / Termination Box
\/
Cat 5 cable (approx 2m) - connected to white/blue twisted pair of Telecom cable
\/
Master jack point
\/
Cat 5 cable connecting rest of house (via blue/white twisted pair) - this is what I disconnected to run the isolation test

Thanks for the help.
I'll see if Xnet can do anything about getting Chorus to look, I don't mind paying for Chorus.

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