solved: hard drive dead dead or just dead?

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Batman

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#307081 18-Sep-2023 08:08

tore out a 2019 WD 10TB external backup unit when new, used as internal HDD in desktop

drive is hardly used, maybe accessed like 3 times a year

but when i moved it to a new desktop build, the drive does not spin and is not detected in bios

swapping sata and power cables with known working ones - no spin

i guess the drive is dead?

i thought it's interesting as it had just sat in the desktop barely accessed and it just dies from moving desktop?

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#3128890 18-Sep-2023 08:41

Cables may be ok but have you tried another drive on that MB port?

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#3128892 18-Sep-2023 09:10

Bung: Cables may be ok but have you tried another drive on that MB port?

My guess is that they pluged the drive into port 4 or 5 of the sata controller that doesn't work when a second nvme ssd is installed in the system if he pluged it into port 0 to 3 it would likey work fine.

Lias

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#3128901 18-Sep-2023 09:42

Firstly, not spinning isn't a good sign but plenty of modern drives are so damned quiet it can be hard to tell they're actually spinning so don't give up hope just yet.

There's a couple of ways of interpreting your statement about swapping power/sata cables, so apologies if you've already done all these steps. This is what I'd be trying:

Swap the sata cable with a brand new one or one from another PC entirely that you know works.
Swap the power cable entirely if using a modular PSU, or swap to another cable on the PSU (not just another connector on the same strand)
Swap both power/sata cables with another drive in the same PC that is currently working.
Try the drive in another PC entirely (e.g. sounds like you put it into a new build.. try in old build)

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#3128902 18-Sep-2023 09:42

i've tried all ports on the computer, all the power cables. the ports, sata cables, and power cables work with my other 5 hard drives.

i still have the old desktop, shall i plug it back in the old desktop?

Lias

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#3128903 18-Sep-2023 09:42

Batman:

i've tried all ports on the computer, all the power cables. the ports, sata cables, and power cables work with my other 5 hard drives.

i still have the old desktop, shall i plug it back in the old desktop?

100%

gbwelly

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#3128919 18-Sep-2023 10:38

Maybe the old system doesn't have the 3.3v pin enabled on the SATA power connector. Could try tape over pin 3 on the power connector on the drive.

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#3128921 18-Sep-2023 10:41

well on very close inspection i see that the sata connector is not perfect on the drive, the plastic of the sata connector is broken.

it must have happened when i was retrieving the drive from the sealed external enclosure ...

maybe the pins are not aligned or disconnected internally

i guess that's that!

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#3128968 18-Sep-2023 12:54

Batman:
well on very close inspection i see that the sata connector is not perfect on the drive, the plastic of the sata connector is broken.

it must have happened when i was retrieving the drive from the sealed external enclosure ...

maybe the pins are not aligned or disconnected internally

i guess that's that!

But it still worked in the old desktop. Is it still feasible to retry the old configuration?

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#3129037 18-Sep-2023 17:07

Bung:

But it still worked in the old desktop. Is it still feasible to retry the old configuration?

Yes that's the plan, once my new hdd arrives. The moment I can get it to read, if I can get it to read, the plan is to copy over whatever files I have.

I'm afraid with every connection attempt I risk making the pins worse.

Trouble is I've ordered 2 hdds from Amazon and both have failed to arrive. Will have to order a third time.

But I don't hold much hope in getting it to connect. My memory cells vividly tells me that I caused the plastic to break. My son however tells me he was the one who broke it as I guided him on the dismantle. I think it was me.

Why did I use the drive? I can't answer that question.

allio

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#3129370 19-Sep-2023 10:48

gbwelly:

Maybe the old system doesn't have the 3.3v pin enabled on the SATA power connector. Could try tape over pin 3 on the power connector on the drive.

Rule this out before you do anything else. It's very common with shucked WD drives. You don't need tape, just dig out a molex -> SATA power adaptor and see if it's detected when you use that.

A broken SATA connector doesn't explain it not spinning up - it should spin up with no SATA (data) cable attached at all.

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#3129406 19-Sep-2023 13:29

Hmm I need to read up on this thanks. I have idea what that means.
Thanks will look into it. But I won't touch it until Amazon finally sends me my hard drive. Which will be a while. Every time it fails to deliver I have to wait a month for a refund.

allio

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#3129425 19-Sep-2023 14:54

Batman: Hmm I need to read up on this thanks. I have idea what that means.
Thanks will look into it. But I won't touch it until Amazon finally sends me my hard drive. Which will be a while. Every time it fails to deliver I have to wait a month for a refund.

Here's the short version: WD external drives are generally filled with surplus WD "white label" enterprise drives. Some WD enterprise drives, unlike their retail drives (Blue/Red/Black etc) follow a part of the SATA spec in which the 3.3v rail is used to send a "drive reset" signal. Enterprise systems use this ability to physically power cycle the drives from afar. The problem is that consumer PSUs generally don't apply this part of the SATA spec and the majority of them supply a constant current on the 3.3v rail. When you use one of these enterprise drives with one of these PSUs, the 3.3v current means the drive is constantly receiving a "reboot" signal which causes it to never actually boot up. Here's an article confirming that a 10TB WD Easystore being sold in 2019 contained a WD100EMAZ white label drive affected by the 3.3v issue.

Some PSUs have dropped the 3.3v rail as it's no longer used in modern systems, which means you can use these drives without a problem. If your PSU supplies 3.3v to its SATA connectors, you need to physically prevent the 3.3v rail from reaching the drive in order for it to work. There are quite a few different methods to do it. You can apply a thin piece of kapton tape to the relevant pin on the SATA connector (safe and permanent fix across all systems, but fiddly). You can pry the pin off the drive with a knife (don't do this). You can use a molex -> SATA adaptor (molex doesn't carry 3.3V). You can use a SATA -> SATA splitter and physically pull out the wire that carries the 3.3V rail (this is my suggestion for a long-term solution as molex -> SATA adaptors have a spotty reliability record). You can remove the wire from your modular power supply SATA cables (essentially the same thing but a bit riskier/more permanent).

If your 10TB drive is one of the affected ones, your old system's PSU didn't deliver 3.3v, and your new system's PSU does, it would completely explain what you're seeing.

Only way to know for sure is to try it, but there's one easy check you can do - have a look at the SATA power connectors on the old system and compare to the new system. If the old system has four wires and the new system has five wires, this is your problem. You can also try googling the model number on your 10TB drive label + "3.3v" and see if there are any hits.

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#3131017 23-Sep-2023 14:58

allio:

Here's the short version: WD external drives are generally filled with surplus WD "white label" enterprise drives. Some WD enterprise drives, unlike their retail drives (Blue/Red/Black etc) follow a part of the SATA spec in which the 3.3v rail is used to send a "drive reset" signal. Enterprise systems use this ability to physically power cycle the drives from afar. The problem is that consumer PSUs generally don't apply this part of the SATA spec and the majority of them supply a constant current on the 3.3v rail. When you use one of these enterprise drives with one of these PSUs, the 3.3v current means the drive is constantly receiving a "reboot" signal which causes it to never actually boot up. Here's an article confirming that a 10TB WD Easystore being sold in 2019 contained a WD100EMAZ white label drive affected by the 3.3v issue.

Some PSUs have dropped the 3.3v rail as it's no longer used in modern systems, which means you can use these drives without a problem. If your PSU supplies 3.3v to its SATA connectors, you need to physically prevent the 3.3v rail from reaching the drive in order for it to work. There are quite a few different methods to do it. You can apply a thin piece of kapton tape to the relevant pin on the SATA connector (safe and permanent fix across all systems, but fiddly). You can pry the pin off the drive with a knife (don't do this). You can use a molex -> SATA adaptor (molex doesn't carry 3.3V). You can use a SATA -> SATA splitter and physically pull out the wire that carries the 3.3V rail (this is my suggestion for a long-term solution as molex -> SATA adaptors have a spotty reliability record). You can remove the wire from your modular power supply SATA cables (essentially the same thing but a bit riskier/more permanent).

If your 10TB drive is one of the affected ones, your old system's PSU didn't deliver 3.3v, and your new system's PSU does, it would completely explain what you're seeing.

Only way to know for sure is to try it, but there's one easy check you can do - have a look at the SATA power connectors on the old system and compare to the new system. If the old system has four wires and the new system has five wires, this is your problem. You can also try googling the model number on your 10TB drive label + "3.3v" and see if there are any hits.

I'm digesting this as i tried to revive the drive in my old desktop but it also does not spin. i have connected to both Sata power rails and confirmed that the boot drive on the system is able to be powered by either of those rails.

Interestingly my "lost" Amazon drive arrived on a Saturday which is why I'm trying to copy data over. but alas no spin. the Amazon drive spins.

But i will continue reading.

also i didn't mention that the Sata pins holder plastic has broken clean off the old HDD such that the pins are now free floating in the air (straight, not bent). but i don't need to worry about that now as there is no spin.

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#3131018 23-Sep-2023 15:03

allio:

Here's the short version: WD external drives are generally filled with surplus WD "white label" enterprise drives. Some WD enterprise drives, unlike their retail drives (Blue/Red/Black etc) follow a part of the SATA spec in which the 3.3v rail is used to send a "drive reset" signal. Enterprise systems use this ability to physically power cycle the drives from afar. The problem is that consumer PSUs generally don't apply this part of the SATA spec and the majority of them supply a constant current on the 3.3v rail. When you use one of these enterprise drives with one of these PSUs, the 3.3v current means the drive is constantly receiving a "reboot" signal which causes it to never actually boot up. Here's an article confirming that a 10TB WD Easystore being sold in 2019 contained a WD100EMAZ white label drive affected by the 3.3v issue.

well, guess what

I have a 10TB white label WD100EMAZ drive bought in July 2019

this gets interesting will carry on reading and see what i can do.

will report back.

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#3131023 23-Sep-2023 15:32

allio:

You can apply a thin piece of kapton tape to the relevant pin on the SATA connector (safe and permanent fix across all systems, but fiddly). You can pry the pin off the drive with a knife (don't do this). You can use a molex -> SATA adaptor (molex doesn't carry 3.3V). You can use a SATA -> SATA splitter and physically pull out the wire that carries the 3.3V rail (this is my suggestion for a long-term solution as molex -> SATA adaptors have a spotty reliability record). You can remove the wire from your modular power supply SATA cables (essentially the same thing but a bit riskier/more permanent).

well, the 1mm piece of celotape did the trick

drive spun

connected the sata cable to the free floating pins and drive appears in windows

thank you

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