Bye bye Windows Phone....

Forums › Legacy mobile platforms (Windows Mobile, Palm OS, Web OS, Symbian, Meego, Blackberry) › Bye bye Windows Phone....

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#1342736 14-Jul-2015 08:44

Technofreak:
DeepBlueSky: It's really sad Microsoft forced Nokia to build Windows only phones, in retrospect when they bought the mobile division they could have made their phones duel boot Windows / Android. Nokia hardware has been great over the years a duel boot option could bring Android users in with their ecosystem of apps then invite them to use Windows phone you catch more with a carrot than with a stick.

Anyway its history now maybe someone can grab the remains and produce great quality Nokia Android phones with the Android fragmentation at the moment an Apple like vendor in Nokia with maybe 3 phones 'cheap' 'mid-range' and 'top range' great design and cameras etc. properly supported running vanilla nexus like versions of Android would be successful and maybe these could also run Windows Phone as an alternative.

The really sad thing is Nokia abandoned Meego. This platform was/is much better than WP and was really the way forward for Nokia.

Nokia had some issues, mainly getting their focus right, there was too much internal friction between the Meego and Symbian teams. They needed someone to provide some good leadership. Steve Elop didn't do that. Instead he killed Meego and put Nokia on a dead end pathway. Some people saw him as Microsoft's Trojan Horse, I saw him as just a clumsy fool.

What would Nokia have done to kickstart a new ecosystem, break through the app gap problem, the network effect/chicken & egg problem, with Meego, that Microsoft wasn't able to do with WP?

nathan

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#1342739 14-Jul-2015 08:47

Technofreak: Interesting article here.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11478842

This is a comment that sums up Stephen Elop.

As Tomi Ahonen has pointed out, Nokia's business was still thriving and growing after the Iphone came out. The start of the decline can be very clearly dated to Elop's absolutely stupid "burning platform" memo.

Anyone can be an armchair CEO with hindsight

Saying things like this is stupid:

"even more so because it was pretty clear from the outset that the marriage between the two companies would fail."

MikeB4

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#1342751 14-Jul-2015 09:03

nathan:
Technofreak: Interesting article here.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11478842

This is a comment that sums up Stephen Elop.

As Tomi Ahonen has pointed out, Nokia's business was still thriving and growing after the Iphone came out. The start of the decline can be very clearly dated to Elop's absolutely stupid "burning platform" memo.

Anyone can be an armchair CEO with hindsight

Saying things like this is stupid:

"even more so because it was pretty clear from the outset that the marriage between the two companies would fail."

Not fail as such but not distinct entities, and Nokia would never remain so, for example, Spark and Geni-i , HP and Compaq. Going forward I believe we will see an entirely different Windows/Windows Mobile landscape with the two actually three(xbox) melding
into one.

dafman

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#1342754 14-Jul-2015 09:06

NZCrusader: The idea of only having android and IOS to choose from, would be a dark future.

Is there a third option out there? (-;

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#1342755 14-Jul-2015 09:10

dafman:
NZCrusader: The idea of only having android and IOS to choose from, would be a dark future.

Is there a third option out there? (-;

There are several, Ubuntu is one, sort of and of course Windows, Tizen ummm nah too cold to think of more my brain needs anti-freeze :P

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#1343210 14-Jul-2015 18:01

nathan: What would Nokia have done to kickstart a new ecosystem, break through the app gap problem, the network effect/chicken & egg problem, with Meego, that Microsoft wasn't able to do with WP?

Nokia didn't need to kickstart anything. They already had all basics that were needed for the Meego platform to grow and flourish.

There was already had a pretty good app collection for Meego even after Elop basically ensured Meego was stillborn.

I guess you never used a Meego phone nor the Nokia Store for Meego.

Microsoft's problems stem from the very low uptake of the WP platform. Even the stillborn Meego OS outsold WP phones. After the Nokia's introduction of WP their market share dropped from over 35% to below 3%. It's pretty hard to bridge the app gap with penetration like that.

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Technofreak

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#1343214 14-Jul-2015 18:07

MikeB4:
dafman:
NZCrusader: The idea of only having android and IOS to choose from, would be a dark future.

Is there a third option out there? (-;

There are several, Ubuntu is one, sort of and of course Windows, Tizen ummm nah too cold to think of more my brain needs anti-freeze :P

Tizen, is Samsungs version of Meego.

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#1343224 14-Jul-2015 18:33

Technofreak:
nathan: What would Nokia have done to kickstart a new ecosystem, break through the app gap problem, the network effect/chicken & egg problem, with Meego, that Microsoft wasn't able to do with WP?

Nokia didn't need to kickstart anything. They already had all basics that were needed for the Meego platform to grow and flourish.

There was already had a pretty good app collection for Meego even after Elop basically ensured Meego was stillborn.

I guess you never used a Meego phone nor the Nokia Store for Meego.

Microsoft's problems stem from the very low uptake of the WP platform. Even the stillborn Meego OS outsold WP phones. After the Nokia's introduction of WP their market share dropped from over 35% to below 3%. It's pretty hard to bridge the app gap with penetration like that.

I've used Meego, and the above sounds like very rose tinted glasses IMHO

Its unfair to blame this on Elop. Who hired him? Who else was on the Nokia board of directors that decided to can Symbian and Meego. This was not just a Elop decision.

Devices are not about selling devices but a war of ecosystems, including not only hardware and software of the device, but developers, apps, store, advertising, search, social, location-based services, unified communications and others.

Clearly Nokia believed they had a better chance of establishing WP as that ecosystem not Meego.

Technofreak

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#1343269 14-Jul-2015 19:37

nathan: I've used Meego, and the above sounds like very rose tinted glasses IMHO

Its unfair to blame this on Elop. Who hired him? Who else was on the Nokia board of directors that decided to can Symbian and Meego. This was not just a Elop decision.

Devices are not about selling devices but a war of ecosystems, including not only hardware and software of the device, but developers, apps, store, advertising, search, social, location-based services, unified communications and others.

Clearly Nokia believed they had a better chance of establishing WP as that ecosystem not Meego.

Rose tinted perhaps, perhaps not. I regularly get to use a WP phone, my wife has a 1020.

We have a 920 lying around here at home which I'd quite like to use. However it has some severe limitations for me, like not being able to add multiple calendar events via either an .ics or .vcs file, nor will it run the Pebble app in the background just to name a couple.

I think pretty well much of the blame can be laid at Elop's feet. True the Nokia board hired him and they have to shoulder some of the blame. However a board will set policy and generally leave the CEO to set the scene and get on with the job. A board doesn't get involved in the day to day mechanics of the business, otherwise why have a CEO. It was Elop that came up the infamous "Burning Platforms" memo that set in train the move to WP.

I think Elop convinced those around him at Nokia that WP was the way to go. Turns out he was the "King with no clothes" and WP was the "Burning Platform".

You go on about establishing an ecosystem. Nokia already had one. It might not have been perfect, but it certainly didn't need to be built from scratch. They had apps, developers, a store, search, social, location based services etc etc.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
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nathan

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#1343272 14-Jul-2015 19:43

:) its certainly an interesting one, to be a fly on the wall in those discussions

we will never know what could of come of Meego

MikeB4

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#1343274 14-Jul-2015 19:45

Technofreak:
nathan: I've used Meego, and the above sounds like very rose tinted glasses IMHO

Its unfair to blame this on Elop. Who hired him? Who else was on the Nokia board of directors that decided to can Symbian and Meego. This was not just a Elop decision.

Devices are not about selling devices but a war of ecosystems, including not only hardware and software of the device, but developers, apps, store, advertising, search, social, location-based services, unified communications and others.

Clearly Nokia believed they had a better chance of establishing WP as that ecosystem not Meego.

Rose tinted perhaps, perhaps not. I regularly get to use a WP phone, my wife has a 1020.

We have a 920 lying around here at home which I'd quite like to use. However it has some severe limitations for me, like not being able to add multiple calendar events via either an .ics or .vcs file, nor will it run the Pebble app in the background just to name a couple.

I think pretty well much of the blame can be laid at Elop's feet. True the Nokia board hired him and they have to shoulder some of the blame. However a board will set policy and generally leave the CEO to set the scene and get on with the job. A board doesn't get involved in the day to day mechanics of the business, otherwise why have a CEO. It was Elop that came up the infamous "Burning Platforms" memo that set in train the move to WP.

I think Elop convinced those around him at Nokia that WP was the way to go. Turns out he was the "King with no clothes" and WP was the "Burning Platform".

You go on about establishing an ecosystem. Nokia already had one. It might not have been perfect, but it certainly didn't need to be built from scratch. They had apps, developers, a store, search, social, location based services etc etc.

I don't care about who did what and when I am more interested in who will do what, how and when.

Technofreak

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#1343282 14-Jul-2015 20:01

nathan: :) its certainly an interesting one, to be a fly on the wall in those discussions

Yes, most certainly.

nathan:we will never know what could of come of Meego

True, however the guys at Jolla are doing their best to continue the Meego heritage. Time will tell how that goes.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
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#1343283 14-Jul-2015 20:02

MikeB4:

I don't care about who did what and when I am more interested in who will do what, how and when.

I'd like to know that too. I live in hope that Windows 10 will be everything Microsoft tell us it will be.

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#1343288 14-Jul-2015 20:13

Technofreak:
MikeB4:

I don't care about who did what and when I am more interested in who will do what, how and when.

I'd like to know that too. I live in hope that Windows 10 will be everything Microsoft tell us it will be.

Yep so do I, if the whole ecosystem develops as they are saying and with Win 10 is showing that promise then Windows mobile could well see me selling my iPhone. It has to work this time or it will be gone for good.

MikeB4

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#1343439 15-Jul-2015 07:22

This is an interesting piece concerning the future of MS Mobile from Satya Nadella

http://www.windowscentral.com/nadella-if-oems-dont-build-windows-phones-we-will

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