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freakalad

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#37851 20-Jul-2009 13:47
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I've been provided a very snazzy BB device from abroad, to test on local networks (voda, telecom, 2-deg, b&w, etc); has WiFi, & a whole bunch of other bells & whistles.

I've been badly burnt by numerous mobile co's in the past (hidden costs, undeclared subscriptions, privacy, quality & service issues), therefore I no longer make use of contracted services & work solely from pre-paid (once bitten, twice shy), especially in testing & work-related exercises. (multiple networks, multiple SIM's)

So, what I'm hoping/planning to do is use the device as a *normal* smartphone, but many of the DEVICE's functionality is not available, such a a very simple IMAP email client that is available on ANY smartphone & on the majority of not-so-smart-phones.
It seem that I have to "activate" the device against a BES/BIS service in order to unlock this functionality, which will again lock me into an extended contract as exorbitant costs for services I do not want: IMAP (IDLE) is good enough, and I'm not interested in "BB-push"

Other little annoyances: no PDF reader available (J2ME or otherwise), can't find a softphone (no fring, skype or iskoot client; gizmo5 is a no-go), poor non-win support

Do I absolutely HAVE to sign up for a BES/BIS service via my mobile network, or is there some other way around these restrictions? I'm interested in the device, not so much the service at this juncture (which I'll get around to at a later stage)

If someone can please give me some insight into this matter, will appreciate it

Thanks

- J




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tonyhughes
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  #237170 20-Jul-2009 14:40
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BlackBerry is not so much a device, as a combined experience including hardware, software and services.

If you do not require these experiences/features, then you likely have the wrong device for your needs.







Kiwipixter
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  #237171 20-Jul-2009 14:41
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hi J,

You can try this free imap client for BB, http://www.logicprobe.org/proj/logicmail. Here is another one thats not free, but you do get 7 days trial, http://www.tiggit.com/.

You don't need BIS or BES service, so prepay data in your case. Also, not sure about telecom BB but voda BB you need to define an APN for non BB traffic. Goto Options-->Advanced options-->TCP. Enter "www.vodafone.net.nz" in APN field.

Cheers.

freakalad

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  #237175 20-Jul-2009 14:55
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Thanx for the info, guys.
Quite right: it is an *experience*..... what kind I'm not quite willing to say "on-air"

I've got a pretty good idea of what the "BB service" entails, & AFAIK it's mostly to do with so-call push-mail; something I can do quite OK with IMAP IDLE. (thanks for the client lead)

I'm not too comfortable relying on a 3rd-party relay server I have absolutely no control over. I've been tasked with coming up with new & interesting ways of cutting costs for everyday-Joes, hence the pre-paid.

Many people have BB's & iPhones (2nd-hand or otherwise), so I'm trying to cook up new services for them (i.e. improved value-for-money): less BS, less $$$, better service & TCO




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freakalad

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  #237185 20-Jul-2009 15:56
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That LogicMail's a really cool & ambitious project & I'm sure it'll eventually provide the functionality I'm after.
Pity:
* it doesn't integrate into the platform's mail environment (& enable system's IMAP client)
* no IDLE (yet)

Let's say, for instance, I want my BB to integrate into the google "cloud" services, since I may already have signed up for their premium enterprise services, and I have higher confidence in their uptime that I have in voda, or RIM for that matter (this is just a line of reasoning I'm trying to cover), AFAIK there would still be no way of doing this, without paying voda a bb-service subscription, even though I'm never going to use it....ever.
I've tried using the google bb client apps (mail, maps, voice, etc), but even they seem to still require an APN (as opposed to pulling the data over WiFi); they seem to pull ALL their data over the mobile network, as opposed to the wifi, and I suspect the "push-mail" will work the same (which is EXACTLY what I want to avoid)

But....bit by bit I'm starting to FOSS-hack my way around it: Opera mini browser, midpssh, gizmo5, LogicMail, google mail, voice & maps, vnc, anyremote, funambol, syncml... (have yet to find a RDP & PDF client)





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freakalad

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  #237186 20-Jul-2009 15:56
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That LogicMail's a really cool & ambitious project & I'm sure it'll eventually provide the functionality I'm after.

Pity:

* it doesn't integrate into the platform's mail environment (& enable system's IMAP client)

* no IDLE (yet)



Let's say, for instance, I want my BB to integrate into the google "cloud" services, since I may already have signed up for their premium enterprise services, and I have higher confidence in their uptime that I have in voda, or RIM for that matter (this is just a line of reasoning I'm trying to cover), AFAIK there would still be no way of doing this, without paying voda a bb-service subscription, even though I'm never going to use it....ever.

I've tried using the google bb client apps (mail, maps, voice, etc), but even they seem to still require an APN (as opposed to pulling the data over WiFi); they seem to pull ALL their data over the mobile network, as opposed to the wifi, and I suspect the "push-mail" will work the same (which is EXACTLY what I want to avoid)



But....bit by bit I'm starting to FOSS-hack my way around it: Opera mini browser, midpssh, gizmo5, LogicMail, google mail, voice & maps, vnc, anyremote, funambol, syncml... (have yet to find a RDP & PDF client)







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  #237249 20-Jul-2009 18:49
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google for 'blackberry without a BIS/BES' should come up top spot, also google for funambol..

In saying that, ... it is not the same, you won't get BBM, etc.

Edit again, this trick won't work on 'prepaid' at least term phone with data plan attached may it be $1.00 a day one with vodafone.

Bah edit again docs to go premium has the service, even though natively you can view pdf files like scanned documents to pdf I just viewed a RFP from a client without this software. Palringo should work with a normal phone connection. There is skype with beejive that does skype, paid also. and .. a company has been developing a software to use for VOIP calling utilizing wifi ... so it's coming, and to tell you the truth once you've experienced black you'll never go back.

freakalad

231 posts

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  #237388 21-Jul-2009 10:40
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Thanks again for the info.
I just like the notion of not being locked to a single vendor, if only to be able to compare the offering on an equal footing.

Especially when it comes to mobiles: RIM where in trouble at one point, same as Palm, and if they go bust, well, what then?
I just found it absolutely shocking that this supposedly state-of-the-art devices don't even offer rudimentary functionality that my horrible Motorola E1000 device offered (IMAP, PDF, application control, etc). Smartphone 101

Well, like I said, this is a testing/demo unit I'm using, so it wouldn't have been my 1st choice otherwise, but I have quite a few clients that still have their devices (for whatever reason), and have fallen on hard times & are looking at ways of cutting costs




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BigDave
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  #240088 29-Jul-2009 11:38
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I can understand you points Freakalad, but why would a smartphone developed in such a way to always be in contact with RIM infrastructure offer a service which it see's as redundant?

It like designing a car to run on a new super fuel, but building in a lot of redundant fuel tanks and cross overs to allow you to use unleaded.

as per the 1st response you received Blackberry isn't so much just a device but an integrated service.

Good luck in your endeavors though.




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zocster
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  #240103 29-Jul-2009 12:47
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Spawneh:

as per the 1st response you received Blackberry isn't so much just a device but an integrated service.



well said, and 100% agreed. Haven't really experienced anything quite like it.

BigDave
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  #240174 29-Jul-2009 15:44
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I think thats why when it, come to a solution that can be put in and scalable with a fixed price you find it easy to sell to corporates




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zocster
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  #240189 29-Jul-2009 16:20
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That's the thing it should be made affordable to the consumer it is not a corporate only device. XT is doing a great job at reducing that but need more handset options

freakalad

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  #240194 29-Jul-2009 16:27
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The best way to drive costs down & encourage innovation, is by means of open (i.e. IETF/W3C/RFC published) standards & protocols, so that you are not encumered/forced to use a particular solutions, but that you are then able to consider competition on it's own merits.

apples vs. oranges

If you *then* come along with a great service in a pretty wrapper, all the better!




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BigDave
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  #240204 29-Jul-2009 16:41
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I would agree, however how do you manage a solution/service which has strict needs to have a high level of security with regards to military contracts, If you use open source?

One device/solution may never be able to compete on the same level as all others.

One of the ways Vodafone have tried to make the pricing easier to get over is by offering Blackberry plans as part of a 200meg 1gig plans without a specified amount going to Blackberry or Mobile internet.




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freakalad

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  #240243 29-Jul-2009 18:19
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FOSS != insecure

"Security by Obscurity" is a broken paradigm, I'm afraid.

& the militaries have embraced open principals: https://forge.mil & https://forgemil.com, tor (for anonymizing espionage efforts), etc

That offer from Voda's pretty interesting since the various operators are basically put on equal footing with each other, in terms of cost & access, and, yes, I know I can basically set up my own BIS service, which I can then resell to the public.

But that seems a bit of tortured reasoning in order to freely access & have (near-)total control over my own data.
It becomes a nightmare if you decide that you want to build your own complementary systems or add-ons, without the express blessing of the manufacturer.
ms whas rapped severly over the knuckles by the EU because they didn't want to play nice with others




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BigDave
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  #240501 30-Jul-2009 10:20
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Havent Apple done the same thing with there Apple Store? banning things like google voice and such?




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