Flight Sim setup for youth training organization.

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nzmatt

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#291871 10-Dec-2021 12:38

I have been asked to investigate setting up a flight simulator for the youth training group I am connected with.

We have our own facilities and can provide a dedicated room for the equipment. The focus is on flight training rather than gaming, so would be looking to get a setup that replicates axis light aircraft used in real life (Tecnam P92). I expect flight dynamics of modern simulators such as MS or X-Plane are more than accurate enough, so need to look into hardware controls (yokes/pedals/consoles etc)

I am sure it will be used for fun gaming as well, and we will probably look at setting up two at some time sooner or later.

We are located at an aerodrome with limited and expensive cell based internet coverage, which will be a consideration for the software. Happy to relocate the main machine for setup and occasional maintenance, but gigabyte downloads of software updates every other day is not going to happen. Essentially it must be useable offline.

We currently don't have a budget in mind, we want a setup that works and will raise funds to meet the requirements rather than half bake it. That said, a basic setup that can be easily expanded as budget allows has been discussed as probably the best way forward if it can be done.

Thoughts are to decide which software and computer/console to use, then decide which control hardware is best, then look at screens and if custom 'cockpits' would be beneficial.

Asking initially for pointers on getting started.

mentalinc

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#2829901 10-Dec-2021 12:49

Maybe look into starlink for broadband?
MSFS 2020 requires 20GB+ updates on a regular basis, and is best used when internet connected for sceanry.

I'd say you'd be looking at circa $10k minimum per system.

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xpd

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#2829966 10-Dec-2021 13:48

As above... once you allow for decent video card, at least 3x 27" screens, CPU etc, then add on the decent control gear, it adds up pretty quick. From memory, the one I setup about 10 years ago for a flight school was around the $5k mark in total.

Was a lot of fun though :) Was running XPlane and Flight Sim.

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afe66

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#2829970 10-Dec-2021 14:12

It's a long shot but 15 yrs ago there was a group in chch who setup flight sim company possibly via mike pero which I think ultimately failed but with some digging you might be able to track down some of the IT guys as nz is a small place...

Flight experience was the company name.

I remember taking my pc to an industrial warehouse in chch for a LAN party with some people flying in big cockpit while others sat in front of pc providing real time at for chch airport and people flew in from all over nz and au.

Way way past my skill level but interesting to see the hardware kits they came up with for the full cockpit setup.

mentalinc

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#2829983 10-Dec-2021 14:39

As an FYI on rough indication (USD).

Noting that i assume you want yoke not stick.. there are a few options to consider.
What plane are you trying to simulate as well may help define the direction of kit.

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ResponseMediaNZ

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#2829985 10-Dec-2021 14:41

afe66: It's a long shot but 15 yrs ago there was a group in chch who setup flight sim company possibly via mike pero which I think ultimately failed but with some digging you might be able to track down some of the IT guys as nz is a small place...

Flight experience was the company name.

I remember taking my pc to an industrial warehouse in chch for a LAN party with some people flying in big cockpit while others sat in front of pc providing real time at for chch airport and people flew in from all over nz and au.

Way way past my skill level but interesting to see the hardware kits they came up with for the full cockpit setup.

Flight Experience was the "Consumer/Fun" part of the company.

Its actually called Pacific Simulators https://pacificsimulators.com/ the team is still around most still work with or are associated with PacSim

There might be a few rigs laying around that might help. there is a few other bits of software around.

wellygary

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#2829986 10-Dec-2021 14:43

Would you consider going down the VR route?, rather than having a fixed monitor setup

Scrub through to a couple of minutes in and it looks superb..

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mentalinc

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#2829988 10-Dec-2021 14:44

Plenty of options on rudder pedals - depending on need for toe brake or note..

Mfg-sim are great - I have these.

Slaw - empty wallet.

Then VKB have some more basic without toe brake...

I'd suggest these three only as they will be strong enough to last, the other options are generally plastic which i can see not lasting well..

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afe66

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#2830065 10-Dec-2021 17:38

Id keep it simple with big monitors and spend the cash on nice yoke rudder throttle setuo rather than vr

mentalinc

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#2830107 10-Dec-2021 20:23

Agree VR can make people very sick very quick.

You also need to figure out a way to engage with cockpit buttons which is slow to learn on top.

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Technofreak

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#2830200 10-Dec-2021 22:45

Personally I think such a device is of questionable value from an ab-initio aeronautical training perspective. The real value in simulators of the calibre you're talking about is to learn procedural stuff and their best use is for instrument training which I doubt is your aim with this project. I speak from experience having given 4500 hours of instructing and having used used basic simulators.

In my opinion all you're going to end up with is a fancy arcade game.

However if you want good flight controls with tactile switches and buttons have e look here.https://flyelite.com/flight-consoles/

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nzmatt

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#2830293 11-Dec-2021 08:54

Value the feed back, especially from an experienced flying instructor - you are correct, procedural and instrument are not high on the list. I suppose if a $10k setup was effective, every flying school in the country would have at least one. I think main aim to to get the kids comfortable with controls, terminology, and with good graphics, what the aerodrome looks like from the air. Essentially a (expensive) hands on you-tube video intro. Followed up with a bit of fun ( Despite what we say, it will probably spend more time simulating F16's than single engine trainers :) )

If we go ahead, it will be monitors not VR. VR has its place, but it would need augment reality to be able operate switches and other controls and some people are not compatible with VR. I see it as a can of worms best not opened.

I really like the look of that FlyElite kit, way beyond our budget unless we can find a very kind benefactor.

Cheers

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Technofreak

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#2831512 13-Dec-2021 15:39

nzmatt:

Value the feed back, especially from an experienced flying instructor - you are correct, procedural and instrument are not high on the list. I suppose if a $10k setup was effective, every flying school in the country would have at least one. I think main aim to to get the kids comfortable with controls, terminology, and with good graphics, what the aerodrome looks like from the air. Essentially a (expensive) hands on you-tube video intro. Followed up with a bit of fun ( Despite what we say, it will probably spend more time simulating F16's than single engine trainers :) )

If we go ahead, it will be monitors not VR. VR has its place, but it would need augment reality to be able operate switches and other controls and some people are not compatible with VR. I see it as a can of worms best not opened.

I really like the look of that FlyElite kit, way beyond our budget unless we can find a very kind benefactor.

Cheers

I think there are more important things to focus on than those items for anyone thinking of taking up flying.

I'm thinking of procedural stuff like pre start, after start, and pre take off procedures. These need to be done properly from day one and a simulator is a good device for getting these learned correctly, provided they are being taught correctly to start with. In other words taught and done the same way they would be if they were in an real aircraft by a person like an instructor who knows how it will be taught. If they're not done properly the procedures will need to be relearned which costs time and money when they get into a real aircraft.

The controls of such a simulator will be so different to a real aircraft that the simulator will be of no practical use in getting comfortable with the controls.

Terminology is certainly useful, provided the correct terms are used.

Each aerodrome looks different from each other in the air. I doubt the graphics will give the same perspective that is viewed out the front window or side windows. Things like nose cowls and wings obscure various ground reference points and unless the simulator simulates the same scenario I don't see much value with a simulator here either.

I'm sorry for pouring cold water on this project. If you want a fancy arcade game to entertain the kids then I think it will be good for that. If you want to provide a flight experience your money would be better spent buying each child an Effects of Controls flying lesson and subsequent lessons as applicable.

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