IRD gets their hands on Steam (GST being added to purchases soon)

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#1726883 27-Feb-2017 09:33

tdgeek:

Behodar:

BlinkyBill: What's the problem with paying GST on purchases you make whilst domicile in New Zealand? Like everyone else does?

Look at the argument from the opposite perspective. If I buy a foreign-made game from a foreign service (using a foreign payment method such as PayPal, perhaps) then what has the NZ government done to deserve an extra 15% on top?

Same reason for the goods that are made overseas, and sold here. The Govt hasn't done anything to deserve those taxes either. Nor the income tax that I pay, but they collect tax to fund NZ's budget.

Agree.

In any case, GST is a consumption tax, not a production tax.

i.e. the tax is based on where the purchaser is, not the seller. (with a few exceptions)

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#1726886 27-Feb-2017 09:35

shk292:

geocom:

Personally I would prefer if we just got rid of GST altogether and move to a different form of taxation to make up the deficit it does not work in the internet age and is far more costly than its worth to police.

I thought GST was meant to be one of the most efficient, easily administered taxes? That's the argument for a uniform rate, applied to everything tax and why things like lower rates for books, none for basic foods etc are such a bad idea.

Thats what I feel, its easy to administer, and it gets paid direct to Govt without a drama.

evnafets

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#1726896 27-Feb-2017 09:49

tdgeek:

shk292:

geocom:

Personally I would prefer if we just got rid of GST altogether and move to a different form of taxation to make up the deficit it does not work in the internet age and is far more costly than its worth to police.

I thought GST was meant to be one of the most efficient, easily administered taxes? That's the argument for a uniform rate, applied to everything tax and why things like lower rates for books, none for basic foods etc are such a bad idea.

Thats what I feel, its easy to administer, and it gets paid direct to Govt without a drama.

It was an efficient easily administered tax when it was introduced 30 years ago. And it still is. GST is captured at point of sale.

The advent of shopping online in the global marketplace is what has changed. When you shop online overseas, you don't pay GST. It is meant to be added on when it gets imported into the country (within certain limits).
Buying stuff overseas is now much easier than it used to be, so more people are doing it. It is not practical to analyse every package that comes into NZ to add GST, so they are doing what makes sense: Capturing GST at the point of sale.

tdgeek

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#1726897 27-Feb-2017 09:52

evnafets:

tdgeek:

shk292:

geocom:

Personally I would prefer if we just got rid of GST altogether and move to a different form of taxation to make up the deficit it does not work in the internet age and is far more costly than its worth to police.

I thought GST was meant to be one of the most efficient, easily administered taxes? That's the argument for a uniform rate, applied to everything tax and why things like lower rates for books, none for basic foods etc are such a bad idea.

Thats what I feel, its easy to administer, and it gets paid direct to Govt without a drama.

It was an efficient easily administered tax when it was introduced 30 years ago. And it still is. GST is captured at point of sale.

The advent of shopping online in the global marketplace is what has changed. When you shop online overseas, you don't pay GST. It is meant to be added on when it gets imported into the country (within certain limits).
Buying stuff overseas is now much easier than it used to be, so more people are doing it. It is not practical to analyse every package that comes into NZ to add GST, so they are doing what makes sense: Capturing GST at the point of sale.

Im pretty sure my purchases via Apple app store have alwasy been incl GST. So you'd need to analyse every overseas seller, and while thats potentially thousands, the reality is that its much less

MikeAqua

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#1726905 27-Feb-2017 10:06

Good. I'm happy to see the NZ govt expanding it's tax take and applying GST to sales made into NZ by these large overseas firms.

I realise GST is tax on consumers not companies but it's still a step in the right direction.

The harder it is to avoid tax (any tax) by shifting purchases around, the better for everyone.

Mike

geocom

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#1726925 27-Feb-2017 10:28

One of the issues with GST Internationally is trying to figure out where it applies. Its not everywhere and those that do will generally have no actual idea how the laws do apply I recently had to order a set of computers from amazon that I modify and sell to support my product. I can only buy these boxes from amazon and the manufacturer won't deal with my business directly. Amazon at checkout now will include 15% GST(the customs charges). Now what they won't tell me is who will be giving me a GST invoice. They won't give me an option to deal with customs directly so I can get a GST invoice.

The other one is you also have the sort of sellers that will no matter what slap a $0 gift declaration on products.

Time and time again people have shown that they don't want to pay GST and will take any method possible to avoid paying 15% it puts NZ businesses at a guaranteed 15% disadvantage over international sellers who don't or won't play by our rules and why would they.

When GST first came out there was no internet. The ability to import products was rather difficult just by the fact that there was no real way to know what was available internationally. That time no longer exists. It is trivial to buy internationally. If you take the amount of goods and services that are flowing through the border and the amount of GST being missed is not small and is only getting larger. It's to costly to hit every import and in reality its a losing game at the $400 threshold anyway.

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ignishin

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#1726940 27-Feb-2017 10:50

I only use Steam for the cheap (sub $10) purchases. I've been sticking to GreenMan Gaming for any AAA digital release otherwise I'm usually only interested in purchasing physical copies (love box-art).

BTR

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#1727730 28-Feb-2017 15:41

I very rarely purchase directly from steam anymore I usually use G2A or Kinguin which I am guessing won't be affected by the GST increase. I guess Steam are justing following the likes of Spotify and Apple Music.

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#1727806 28-Feb-2017 17:01

Most of my time wasting has gone to humble bundle games recently anyway. Hope they stay GST free for the forseable future.

Richard rich.ms

loceff13

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#1727828 28-Feb-2017 17:30

Steam let publishers price itself out of the local NZ market years ago anyway

lNomNoml

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#1727966 28-Feb-2017 21:36

dickytim:

BlinkyBill:
Behodar:

BlinkyBill: What's the problem with paying GST on purchases you make whilst domicile in New Zealand? Like everyone else does?

Look at the argument from the opposite perspective. If I buy a foreign-made game from a foreign service (using a foreign payment method such as PayPal, perhaps) then what has the NZ government done to deserve an extra 15% on top?

If you buy a game, why should you pay gst for a locally-made game from a local service using a local payment method, and no gst for their foreign competitors? Don't you support NZ-made?

What I just wrote is a minor argument. Rightly or wrongly we have a consumption tax that pays for government spending. You consume a game, why shouldn't you pay the tax? Rightly or wrongly gst is very simple to understand, and it should be free of loopholes.

We have a consumption tax to off set the need for higher income tax, it really is as simple as that.

It costs X amount to run the country, so x amount needs to come from taxes.

It is almost like everyone believes the tax department puts it all in their pocket and walks away with it while infrastructure magically appears and pays for itself.

Seems like they do to me, when you waste hours of your life every week stuck in traffic because the roads are not being upgraded to accommodate the ever increasing traffic. And there no point of using public transport either since they get you that way also where it's cheaper in my case to just drive.

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tdgeek

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#1728018 28-Feb-2017 23:10

lNomNoml:

dickytim:

BlinkyBill:
Behodar:

BlinkyBill: What's the problem with paying GST on purchases you make whilst domicile in New Zealand? Like everyone else does?

Look at the argument from the opposite perspective. If I buy a foreign-made game from a foreign service (using a foreign payment method such as PayPal, perhaps) then what has the NZ government done to deserve an extra 15% on top?

If you buy a game, why should you pay gst for a locally-made game from a local service using a local payment method, and no gst for their foreign competitors? Don't you support NZ-made?

What I just wrote is a minor argument. Rightly or wrongly we have a consumption tax that pays for government spending. You consume a game, why shouldn't you pay the tax? Rightly or wrongly gst is very simple to understand, and it should be free of loopholes.

We have a consumption tax to off set the need for higher income tax, it really is as simple as that.

It costs X amount to run the country, so x amount needs to come from taxes.

It is almost like everyone believes the tax department puts it all in their pocket and walks away with it while infrastructure magically appears and pays for itself.

Seems like they do to me, when you waste hours of your life every week stuck in traffic because the roads are not being upgraded to accommodate the ever increasing traffic. And there no point of using public transport either since they get you that way also where it's cheaper in my case to just drive.

You could talk to your MP to get a new tax created to pay for it. Not me though, my motorways are fine. Then talk to your MP as the toll charges are now too high. Like us, local Govt cannot buy what they want when they want. They don't get no deposit for 5 year deals.

PSlover14

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#1736683 15-Mar-2017 10:10

I'm aware this is an old post, but just looking at a recent steam purchase I made, it appears they just take 15% out of the price, so its the same price as before.

jfanning

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#1736698 15-Mar-2017 10:56

geocom:

When GST first came out there was no internet. The ability to import products was rather difficult just by the fact that there was no real way to know what was available internationally. That time no longer exists. It is trivial to buy internationally. If you take the amount of goods and services that are flowing through the border and the amount of GST being missed is not small and is only getting larger. It's to costly to hit every import and in reality its a losing game at the $400 threshold anyway.

Well technically there was internet in 1986

MikeAqua

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#1736732 15-Mar-2017 11:42

jfanning:

Well technically there was internet in 1986

But was it available to consumers and was there internet shopping?

Mike

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