Advice needed to better set up home network for lockdown period

Forums › LAN (ethernet/Wifi/routers/Bluetooth) › Advice needed to better set up home network for lockdown period

adlambert

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#268631 29-Mar-2020 14:37

Hi,

With the lockdown now in place we have 5 people at home wanting to be online with multiple devices/ reasons at the same time. I've noticed a drop off in speed/ reliability. Both my wife and I are working from home employed by 'essential service' providers so good connectivity is important.

Current set up:

- ISP is Vodafone Home Fibre Unlimited 100

- ONT is in a wall cabinet in the garage

- The house has Cat 6 cabling throughout with 6 wall jacks in different rooms all going back to a Hurrell data module in the wall cabinet

- Main wifi router in a Vodafone Ultra Hub also inside the wall cabinet

- Main wifi router allows x3 of the wall jacks to be connected (1x TV and x2 Apple TVs - all downstairs)

- Wifi network has up to 7 phones, 4 laptops, 3 tablets, and 2 kindles connected at the same time (devices used both downstairs and upstairs)

- 2.4GHz and 5.0GHz network's have different names (differentiated by suffix 2 and 5), but same password. Some of the above devices can only connect to 2.4GHz, others both. Those that can connect to both have both networks set up on them.

Up until Thursday afternoon last week I was using a HG659 Home Gateway as the main wifi router, instead of the Ultra Hub. I swapped because I thought the HG659 had died - I've subsequently worked out it is fine. The HG659 allowed x1 additional wall jack to be connected. To this wall jack I had another HG569 connected set up as a wireless access point upstairs.

Questions:

- I'm concerned about the adverse impact on signal strength/ reliability of having the main wifi router inside the wall cabinet. How can I move its location to outside the wall cabinet?

- Which is better to use as the main wifi router - the Ultra Hub or the HG659? Or should I look to get a better router for my needs?

- What is the recommended approach to naming/ set up the 2.4 and 5.0 signals? Same name/ different names etc?

- How can I get all 6 all jacks connected up to maximise the wired network and get some more devices off the wifi? Current routers only have x3 (Ultra Hub) and x4 (HG659) LAN connections. Do I need to get a switch and install this in the wall cabinet?

- Is using another HG659 upstairs as a wireless access point the best set up? Another approach? Should I be looking at a meshing system instead? Keen to keep things as simple and effective as possible. Would a better main wifi router, or getting the main wifi router in to a better position negate the need for any of this?

Any advice would be appreciated. Disclaimer: I don't understand this stuff every well so please use simple layman's terms.

Thanks Aaron

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#2449534 29-Mar-2020 15:02

Hi Aaron

The network/ethernet cable between the ONT and the WAN port of the router can be longer than 50m, so if you have a longer network cable or can get one, this would allow you to move the router to a 'better' location for wireless signal strength. The Ultra Hub and the HG659 should both be fine for residential use. I find my Ultra Hub is more reliable for WiFi than my old HG659, but I suspect my 659 was on its way out. If you are not super techy, using the ISP-supplied router is generally the best way to go, as they will support you over the phone. Use your own router and you are often on your own.

Lots of us add '5G' or similar to our 5GHz networks so we can pick the one we want our devices to connect to, rather than having the device guess. It's personal choice but the propeller-head in me wants to know.

A network switch in the cabinet to give you more cable connections is a sensible thought. You might struggle to get one delivered locally, but might be able to have one delivered from Kogan or Amazon if desperate and can't find one locally. A basic network switch is just a repeater, so all the ports are created equal and it doesn't matter which hole you use. You don't need anything fancy. In theory you can re-purpose one of the HG659's as a simple network switch by disabling its DHCP (and maybe its wifi), but that would still leave you short of connections. You have 7 ports, but a link cable between the two devices leaves you with 5 usable ports. If that's sufficient, we can give you guidance on this. If your employers are essential providers, they may be able to order one for you from a supplier, and we (my company) could also do this for you after making a couple of quick checks.

WiFi signal strength can be a bit of an art. Re-purposing an HG659 as a second access point definitely works, and as long as it does, I'd hold on to your money. A WiFi mesh network is nice but its also a luxury. Moving your main router might do the trick nicely, but then you have to get a cable from the ONT to the router, and then from the router back to the wall cabinet to supply data to the network switch that supplies your CAT6 cabling. Its all do-able but can be a bit messy.

Cheers
Mike

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freitasm

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#2449540 29-Mar-2020 15:14

Where's the "cabinet"? If it's in the garage you will have better performance by moving the WiFi AP to the house - use the ethernet for that. If it's not, make sure the AP is not inside a locked cabinet - blocking the radios won't help. This should give you better performance straight away.

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froob

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#2449541 29-Mar-2020 15:14

If I understand your post correctly, each of your six network outlets around the house have only one socket on them, or do some have two or more?

If one of them has two, and is in a better location for WiFi, then you could put your router there and feed the network back to a separate switch in your cabinet, as Dynamic suggested above.

Also, if your original HG659 is fine, can you switch back to that for the time being?

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adlambert

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#2449596 29-Mar-2020 17:05

Dynamic:

Hi Aaron

The network/ethernet cable between the ONT and the WAN port of the router can be longer than 50m, so if you have a longer network cable or can get one, this would allow you to move the router to a 'better' location for wireless signal strength. The Ultra Hub and the HG659 should both be fine for residential use. I find my Ultra Hub is more reliable for WiFi than my old HG659, but I suspect my 659 was on its way out. If you are not super techy, using the ISP-supplied router is generally the best way to go, as they will support you over the phone. Use your own router and you are often on your own.

Lots of us add '5G' or similar to our 5GHz networks so we can pick the one we want our devices to connect to, rather than having the device guess. It's personal choice but the propeller-head in me wants to know.

A network switch in the cabinet to give you more cable connections is a sensible thought. You might struggle to get one delivered locally, but might be able to have one delivered from Kogan or Amazon if desperate and can't find one locally. A basic network switch is just a repeater, so all the ports are created equal and it doesn't matter which hole you use. You don't need anything fancy. In theory you can re-purpose one of the HG659's as a simple network switch by disabling its DHCP (and maybe its wifi), but that would still leave you short of connections. You have 7 ports, but a link cable between the two devices leaves you with 5 usable ports. If that's sufficient, we can give you guidance on this. If your employers are essential providers, they may be able to order one for you from a supplier, and we (my company) could also do this for you after making a couple of quick checks.

WiFi signal strength can be a bit of an art. Re-purposing an HG659 as a second access point definitely works, and as long as it does, I'd hold on to your money. A WiFi mesh network is nice but its also a luxury. Moving your main router might do the trick nicely, but then you have to get a cable from the ONT to the router, and then from the router back to the wall cabinet to supply data to the network switch that supplies your CAT6 cabling. Its all do-able but can be a bit messy.

Cheers
Mike

Hi Mike/ Dynamic,

Based on what you've suggested, will the following work?

Turn off wifi on 1st HG659

ONT GE1 connected to HG659 WAN in wall cabinet

HG659 LAN1 connected to wall jack 1 (in good central location in house)

HG659 LAN2 connected to wall jack 2

HG659 LAN3 connected to wall jack 3

HG659 LAN4 connected to new network switch in wall cabinet

Wall Jack 1 connected to Ultra Hub WAN for main wifi source (in good central location in house)

Network switch port 1 connected to wall jack 5

Network switch port 2 connected to wall jack 6

Only use other HG659 upstairs as a wireless access point if still needed after re-positioning main wifi source

Thanks Aaron

Dynamic

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#2449600 29-Mar-2020 17:14

Aaron, that looks spot on to me. 💯

The Ultra Hub WAN port should pick up a DHCP network address from the HG659. You don't have to turn off the HG659's WiFi with your proposed setup. All devices should connect to the internet just fine.

Any devices connecting to the Ultra Hub's WiFi or LAN ports will be on a different subnet to devices connected to the HG659, so they might not talk to each other. An example of this is if your laptop is connected to the Ultra Hub and you want to print to a printer that is connected to the HG659, your laptop may not find the printer (depending on how the printer communication settings are set up on your laptop). That scenario is definitely resolvable, but would be a separate thread.

Any device on the HG659 network would not be able to reach out to a device on the Ultra Hub network for any reason. If your laptop was on the HG659 network and wanted to print to a printer on the Ultra Hub network, that's not impossible but is getting pretty advanced.

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cyril7

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#2449601 29-Mar-2020 17:15

Hi, just about, yes connect the 659 in the cabinet with its wireless off, use the LAN ports of the 659 to connect to various outlets.

On the Ultra Hub you MUST not use the WAN port, use one of the LAN ports, otherwise you will have two lans that most liekly will not route you also must turn off teh DHCP server in the Ultra hub

And yes you can expand the number of lan ports on the 659 with a small switch

Cyril

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froob

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#2449603 29-Mar-2020 17:17

That should work, with a couple of suggested changes:
- Connect to a LAN port of your Ultra Hub. If you connect to the WAN you will create a “double NAT” situation where some apps/services may not work properly.
- You should also log into the Ultra Hub and change it’s LAN address. It will probably be 192.168.1.1, and you could change it to 192.168.1.150 for example. You’ll also need to turn off DHCP for this setup.

Edit: Others already commented.

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Dynamic

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#2449604 29-Mar-2020 17:19

@cyril7 will the Ultra Hub not pick up a DHCP address from the HG659? Or would the VLAN tagging for UFB kill that?

@adlambert if cyril7 is correct, then we can guide you on turning off DHCP on the Ultra Hub. Under that scenario, your network would be 'flat' and all devices would be able to communicate just fine.

@froob again excellent thinking. The double-natting is not usually a problem for general internet use, but if DHCP has to be turned off, then changing the LAN IP at the same time makes sense.

I've just checked.... both cyril7 and froob are correct. You will have to get into the Ultra Hub, disable DHCP, and change the IP address from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.somethingelse. From there, leave the Ultra Hub WAN port empty and connect one fo the LAN ports to the HG659 using your cabling. If you need guidance on those changes let us know. I can login to my Ultra Hub and send you some screen shots.

Nice team effort everybody. :)

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cyril7

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#2449608 29-Mar-2020 17:22

Hi, yes the WAN port will pick up and address, then NAT it to the LAN side, so you will now have two lan networks, one for those connected to the wired side of the 659 and one on the LAN side of the Ultra, if they have the same subnet then the Utlra will probably balk and it will not route.

So to Clarify, turn the 659 wireless OFF, and connect to various locations via its LAN ports, use a switch if you want to expand outlets.

On the Ultra hub, turn Off its DHCP, connect to one of its LAN ports nothing to its WAN port. And to make things easier to manage set its LAN IP address to something other than what the 659 is, and ideally something not in the 659s DHCP pool range.

As I recall the Voda imaged 659's had an IP address of 192.168.1.1, if the Ultra Hub is the same change it to 192.168.1.2

Cyril

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#2449646 29-Mar-2020 18:02

aside from the wifi issues, i'd suspect the 20mbit upload might be your primary limiting factor there, switch it to 1000/500 since that seems to be the next step up for VF and you might find it come through a bit better.

This is the one problem with essential workers working from home, many of them don't have a network setup that's quite set for the extra load. but you can't say ok go buy some better wifi, Even as an essential employee, very few vendors will ship without you using the corporate trade account. (Fair enough they don't wanna get a slap from MBE but also really puts you in a tough place)

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adlambert

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#2451813 31-Mar-2020 20:33

cyril7:
Hi, yes the WAN port will pick up and address, then NAT it to the LAN side, so you will now have two lan networks, one for those connected to the wired side of the 659 and one on the LAN side of the Ultra, if they have the same subnet then the Utlra will probably balk and it will not route.

So to Clarify, turn the 659 wireless OFF, and connect to various locations via its LAN ports, use a switch if you want to expand outlets.

On the Ultra hub, turn Off its DHCP, connect to one of its LAN ports nothing to its WAN port. And to make things easier to manage set its LAN IP address to something other than what the 659 is, and ideally something not in the 659s DHCP pool range.

As I recall the Voda imaged 659's had an IP address of 192.168.1.1, if the Ultra Hub is the same change it to 192.168.1.2

Cyril

Thanks for your help!
I think I’ve followed all instructions correctly.
I got a network switch today so all the wired parts of the network are working well.
I have Ultra Hub in a central location in the house connected via LAN1 to the 659s LAN2 back in the wall cabinet in the garage.
659s wifi is off
In the LAN settings of the Ultra Hub, the IP address changed to 192.168.1.150 and the DHCP server is off.
Ultra Hubs wifi is on and 2.4GHz and 5.0GHz set up.
Is that all I have to do?

Cheers Aaron

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froob

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#2451815 31-Mar-2020 20:35

Sounds right - is the wifi working?

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adlambert

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#2451821 31-Mar-2020 20:45

froob: Sounds right - is the wifi working?

Yup seems to be. 5.0GHz looks good across all devices that are capable. 2.4GHz looks good as well but on a few devices it says ‘no internet connection’. Not sure why?

michaelmurfy

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#2451853 31-Mar-2020 21:22

This could be you're reaching the device limit of the HG659 (of which I didn't see anyone mention on my skim of this thread).

The device limit of the HG659 is 16 per channel from memory, so 32 total.

PBTech is selling "essential" items now which includes routers - you could perhaps pick up one of these: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETUBI0209/Ubiquiti-AMPLIFI-INSTANT-AFi-INS-Dual-Band-AC1200 and cable the mesh point in. Will give you a single, seamless network. You can also grab a cheap Gigabit switch: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWHTPL1010/TP-Link-TL-SG1008D-8-Port-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Switch to make up for the lack of ports on the main unit.

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#2451861 31-Mar-2020 21:45

adlambert: ... but on a few devices it says ‘no internet connection’. Not sure why?

Hopefully your DHCP pool is large enough? It might be that you have run out of IP addresses for your network.

Just because you can connect to the Wi-Fi network doesn't mean that everything is operational. If you think of the Wi-Fi as the physical layer & IP addresses as the logical layer, then both have to be in working order for your devices to be operational
Some routers only have a pool of, let's say 20 IP addresses the supply to devices, when in fact your network generally can accommodate 250+ IP addresses
For simplicity sake, set your DHCP server to issue IP addresses in the range of x.x.x.10 to x.x.x.250. Later on you can decrease the pool size.

You could of course also get closer to the AP & see if the problem persists

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