Upgrade AV500 to AV2000 Powerline Adaptors

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Chrisblobster

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#293249 9-Jan-2022 01:14

Hi all, my home network has the fibre ONT connecting to a modem/router, which connects to an AV500 Powerline adaptor, with 3 other AV500 adaptors around the house distributing data to/from my devices including 2 switches to further split the data where multiple devices need to share across one Powerline adaptor. I could get 10-11 MB/s download from anywhere in the house with my 100/20 fibre connection. The ONT has a 1 Gbps interface, but my modem/router and switches only have 100 Mbps interfaces. In addition the AV500 Powerline setup maxes out at around 90 Mbps reliable throughput, so with the recent speed boost to thousands of 100/20 fibre accounts around the country to 300/100 Mbps, my current home network setup is way too slow to get 300 Mbps from the ONT to my devices. Upgrading to a modem/router and switches with Gigabit interfaces is easy, but I need to figure out if going from AV500 to AV2000 Powerline adaptors will boost throughput from approx 90 Mbps to somewhere north of 300 Mbps to keep up with theoretical max of my fibre connection. I'm renting the property, and unfortunately installing some RJ45 wall plates and squirreling a bunch of Cat6 into the walls and ceilings is not an option.

My question: has anyone who uses Powerline network adaptors made the upgrade from AV500 to AV2000, and did it give you at least a 4X boost to throughput?

If I can get a 4X boost I'll get AV2000's, but otherwise I'll have to run Cat6 across the floor in 2 places, and across a hallway to where devices live, which will look terrible.

Best regards, Chris, Christchurch.

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#2845552 9-Jan-2022 01:32

i have tested throughput over tp-link tl-pa9020p and they got to ~220 Mbps (off the top of my head). by test, i mean best case scenario with the 2 units side by side, and using a proper Ethernet tester. so with your homewiring ymmv.

Chrisblobster

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#2845553 9-Jan-2022 02:09

nitro:

i have tested throughput over tp-link tl-pa9020p and they got to ~220 Mbps (off the top of my head). by test, i mean best case scenario with the 2 units side by side, and using a proper Ethernet tester. so with your homewiring ymmv.

If I'm honest with you 220 Mbps doesn't sound very good for a side by side test (because I need a minimum of 300 Mbps across the house throughput to match my new fibre speed) - I'm getting a rock steady 90 Mbps on older SISO tech AV500's with 100 Mbps interfaces, across ~40m wiring, so my automatic assumption would be that a pair of AV2000 with newer MIMO tech and Gigabit interfaces should at a bare minimum talk 4 times faster or more, all things wiring wise being equal. My house wiring is fairly simple with relatively few circuits and short runs, and 90 Mbps that I already get with AV500 times 4 = 360 Mbps - that would be more than enough to do the job.

I've seen one guy on youtube test AV500 vs AV2000, and get a differential of around 5X and a throughput of ~240 Mbps, but I've not seen any video where an AV2000 exceeds the speed shown in that test - seems I need to research AV2000 a bit more before I make my final decision.

Best regards, Chris, Christchurch.

ANglEAUT

altered-ego
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#2845554 9-Jan-2022 02:30

I use the D-Link DHP-P700AV and back in the day this was my speed test result:

700 down / 440 up

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linw

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#2845563 9-Jan-2022 09:31

The best I get from my D-Link AV2 1000 is 185/96. Varied from 166 to 185. So, nowhere near 300! Doesn't trouble me, though, as the powerline only feeds the sky box and TV.

cyril7

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#2845571 9-Jan-2022 09:47

Rather than waste money on better EoP adaptors that might work better now then might not the next minute due to something unrelated being turned on in you home, spend that money on getting a data cabler to run some ethernet cable. Problem solved.

Cyril

nitro

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#2845574 9-Jan-2022 10:01

the figure i mentioned is for at layer 2 out of a standard RFC 2544 test. and i ran it several times - with the units plugged into the same power strip, and with the units plugged into the same wall outlet. it could very well be that the building wiring (at work) doesn't like these things, but the tp-link app was showing a link of '1501 Mbps' (whatever tp-link means by that) at the time of testing.

also not sure what it'll get with ookla's speedtest.

<table> 
<tr> 
<th>Frame Size (bytes)</th> 
<th>Th Max (fps)</th> 
<th>Th Max (bps)</th> 
<th>Meas Tput (fps)</th> 
<th>Meas Tput (bps)</th> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>64</td> 
<td>1,488,095</td> 
<td>761,904,640</td> 
<td>180,431</td> 
<td>92,380,672</td> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>128</td> 
<td>844,594</td> 
<td>864,864,256</td> 
<td>180,796</td> 
<td>185,135,104</td> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>256</td> 
<td>452,898</td> 
<td>927,535,104</td> 
<td>90,579</td> 
<td>185,505,792</td> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>512</td> 
<td>234,962</td> 
<td>962,404,352</td> 
<td>50,296</td> 
<td>206,012,416</td> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>1024</td> 
<td>119,731</td> 
<td>980,836,352</td> 
<td>25,630</td> 
<td>209,960,960</td> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>1280</td> 
<td>96,153</td> 
<td>984,606,720</td> 
<td>20,583</td> 
<td>210,769,920</td> 
</tr> 
<tr> 
<td>1518</td> 
<td>81,274</td> 
<td>986,991,456</td> 
<td>20,826</td> 
<td>252,910,944</td> 
</tr> 
</table>

looks like tables don't work here... i can send you the spreadsheet if interested.

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nitro

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#2845576 9-Jan-2022 10:16

cyril7: Rather than waste money on better EoP adaptors that might work better now then might not the next minute due to something unrelated being turned on in you home, spend that money on getting a data cabler to run some ethernet cable. Problem solved.

Cyril

i always advise the same. perhaps op can work with the landlord? that'd be advantageous for him anyway - for any future tenant after you move on. or even hide a long ethernet cable out of the way somehow?

Chrisblobster

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#2845589 9-Jan-2022 11:40

nitro:

cyril7: Rather than waste money on better EoP adaptors that might work better now then might not the next minute due to something unrelated being turned on in you home, spend that money on getting a data cabler to run some ethernet cable. Problem solved.

Cyril

i always advise the same. perhaps op can work with the landlord? that'd be advantageous for him anyway - for any future tenant after you move on. or even hide a long ethernet cable out of the way somehow?

Unfortunately the house I'm renting is a bit of a special case - 2 of the 3 GPO's I would need to put my RJ45's next to, are not wired with straight drops from the ceiling void, so I couldn't pull Cat6 up into the ceiling void using those power wires - removing gib would be needed to get the Cat6 in - it would be an expensive and disruptive exercise, and the owner has already indicated they aren't going to pay for that. My lease ends in a few months and it's possible the owner might sell the place given the crazy property market. A couple hundred bucks on some AV2000's is not a big deal to me, it would be cheaper than ripping out gib for potentially a short time left in the property.

EDIT - buying a couple of AV2000's might actually be a major deal because almost every retailer that sells them is sold out! Apparently there has been a major rush on these things since a few months ago... I wonders why? 🙃

EDIT, part deux - I already have a 10m Cat6 from the router to the switch that serves the home theatre and that cable is well hidden by the curtains across my sliding doors to the patio. I need to upgrade that switch to gigabit anyway, but would then need to make it an 8 port instead of 4/5, then run 2 more Cat6's from that switch through a door to the hallway, turn 1 cable in through a door and across my main bedroom, then other Cat6 would run across that door then along the hallway a bit before ducking into and across the 2nd bedroom where my main PC lives - lets just say it would be fugly 🙄

Cheers, Chris, Christchurch.

eonsim

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#2845624 9-Jan-2022 13:53

I've got a set of AV1000 and AV2000 TP-link power line units, no effective difference in performance between the two sets or combined (though the AV2000 might do better if I was using multiple at once). Depending on where I plug them in in the house I get between 100-300mbps probably averaging around 240mbps (fast.com on Gigabit fibre). I had one out in the sleepout for a while (50m of power line and two switchboards away) and got 60-90mbps.

Unless your RF environment is completely crowded you would probably be better going Mesh wifi, replace your main router with one (assuming you don't need it for IP phone or TV) then connect the rest of the network to it's second ethernet port. Then connect the second mesh point at the end of the hidden ethernet cable you've got and connect a switch to the second port of that. Then walk towards the most distant point of your house and run speed test over wifi, find a location that still gets full 300mbps from the mesh and stick the third mesh unit there or move it to a room that has ethernet only stuff and place it there, then use it's ethernet ports to host a switch for the devices.

With most decent mesh-units Tp-link M4 (M5 would be better) or greater, google wifi, asus Ai-mesh etc you should be able to get between 300-500mbps from the mesh unit within the room it's in or possibly the next room. With two mesh units using wired backhaul you'll have ~400mbps in those two rooms and depending one exactly what mesh units you get (ie tri-band or something cheaper) you will likely get >150-200mbps from the third mesh point that isn't wired...

dazzanz

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#2845655 9-Jan-2022 15:35

Has anyone found a retailer of these in NZ or Aus? https://www.devolo.co.uk/magic-2-wifi-6

nitro

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#2845664 9-Jan-2022 16:15

dazzanz:

Has anyone found a retailer of these in NZ or Aus? https://www.devolo.co.uk/magic-2-wifi-6

interesting product... but i'm not sure what the point of wifi 6 is given the powerline ethernet backhaul.

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dazzanz

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#2845838 9-Jan-2022 19:49

nitro:
dazzanz:

Has anyone found a retailer of these in NZ or Aus? https://www.devolo.co.uk/magic-2-wifi-6

interesting product... but i'm not sure what the point of wifi 6 is given the powerline ethernet backhaul.

WiFi 6 offers more than just speed improvements.

nitro

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#2845909 9-Jan-2022 21:24

dazzanz:

WiFi 6 offers more than just speed improvements.

i get that... but with the backhaul restricted, what real world gains does one get, really? i mean, what problem/s are you looking to solve?

eonsim

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#2845928 9-Jan-2022 22:37

If you want AV1000/2000 powerline backhaul then the Huawei Q2 Pro is a reasonably priced option in NZ, and TP-link has the P9. In most cases though unless the local airspace is massively overloaded your'll probably get better performance out of a Tri-band mesh setup.

theUtmost

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#2846037 10-Jan-2022 11:59

I can't comment on an upgrade from AV500 to AV2000, but here in no particular order are my personal anecdotal observations and also thoughts about your best options.

I own a TP-Link TL-PA9020P KIT (2x units).

At our last house, built in the 1950s they were appalling. Frequent drops, slow speeds etc. This is an important point - because powerline networking is only as good as your mains cabling.

Clearly the mains wiring at our old house was a bit ropy. The powerline gear then stopped working completely while we were in the first full COVID-19 lockdown and trying to WfH! Since we fortunately owned the house (bought as an interim) I rolled my sleeves up, and ran Cat6 everywhere I needed it. I was able to use old phone wires (I figured these are pointless these days, right?) as draw wires to pull UP a run of cable from the room, as well as drawstring - twice the length of the wall height plus sufficient slack working length to tie off the string onto the ceiling rafter at the top and to the in-room flush box at the bottom. The key is to leave the drawstring IN the wall for future use and never remove it!

In your case since you're not the owner, you could, after pulling UP the Cat6 cable into the ceiling space, then reattach the phone wire to the mid-point of the drawstring and pull the phone wire back DOWN into the room. It can then be reattached into a "dual-outlet" socket. I did exactly this at a prior rental when I found the landlord unamenable to the "can we do cabling" convo. I bought PDL600 face plates and RJ45 keystone jacks and also PHONE (BT socket) keystone inserts, giving a tidy, professional appearance. Landlord never noticed because it was tidy ;-)

I get that it's a bit of effort for only a few months, which makes is a hard sell, but I always recommend cabling to everyone. The alternatives are just never as good.

That said, we have now moved into a much newer house: built in 2003/2004.

It has zero network wiring in it. It has a concrete pad floor (so I can't go under it). It has an architecturally "fun" single span single pitch roof - with no cavity (so I can't go over it). It also has internal brick wall through the hallway (so I can't really go through it!). Wall lining removal would be my only option and she-who-must-be-obeyed says nope.

I have tried mesh wifi gear - what a load of rubbish they are! (disclaimer: I design enterprise WiFi stuff so perhaps my expectations are too high?)

Even though I thought my TL-PA9020P kit had died, I never got round to disposing of it, so in desperation, I got it out and tried it. Working fine! So presumably cabling done from 2003 onwards is more amenable to the right variety of modulation/demodulation required for powerline. I'll probably jinx it by typing this but it hasn't actually gone offline once yet. Don't think there is any point in sharing speedtest / throughput results because my circumstance and mains wiring isn't the same as yours so it's not relevant.

I now need to extend wired network to another room for home br/office and thought "oh I'll just buy another kit - seems to be working in this house". I found as you say though, everyone has sold out in NZ... :(

As an alternative, I am now reading up on MoCA gear, because this seems FAR superior to powerline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance

Latest spec MoCA 3.0 allegedly can do throughput up to 10Gbps. Cue the Tui ad 'yeah, right'.... says me but its still going to be MUCH better than powerline, and if you are considering ordering gear from overseas anyway (like I am) it could be worth looking into. I'd be very happy with MoCA 2.0 spec 1Gbps throughput.

In my case while I have no network wires, every room in the house (except bathrooms/laundry) has at least 1x coax outlet, some have several (sky sat dish output as well as UHF antenna), so the people who built it really loved their broadcast telly lol. I have found 2x splitters so I hope there aren't any more squirreled away in inaccessible spots!

Anyway, while it doesn't directly answer your query about AV500 > AV2000 upgrade, hope some of my experience might be useful. I don't think you can read anything into other people's results even if they did use exactly the same powerline hardware as you have (and are considering upgrading to) because the major variables are the mains wiring itself and also the mix of other appliances running on said mains wiring (causes interference for the signal propagation and modulation/demodulation) - which will always differ to yours!.

Good luck! Cheers, tU

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