Ethernet Extenders between buildings

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Sparky123

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#299447 8-Sep-2022 17:40

Hi guys, Cat.3 twisted pair between buildings. Wireless link out of the question due to hills and trees. 300m max distance. 10 buildings all wanting internet. 1 lonely VDSL Ethernet Extender left in NZ.

Can I use two modems to extend the existing network, acting as Ethernet Extenders? One "Master" connected to the LAN and the twisted pair via the DSL port, then the other in the building at the end of the twisted pair, also connected to the DSL port?

Would I just put them in bridge mode? I can understand that I would need to set some form of authentication perhaps, so they could establish a relationship, but I can't find my idea online.

Any thoughts?

Linux

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#2964745 8-Sep-2022 17:48

This sounds like a disaster sorry to say and go back to the drawing board

shk292

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#2964752 8-Sep-2022 18:26

Could you run a better cable and use Ethernet?

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2964753 8-Sep-2022 18:35

You should be able to get better than xDSL speeds over Cat3 cables.

Not a recommendation, but devices like this (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003311812686.html) could be used to get decent speeds across the distances required.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2964770 8-Sep-2022 19:49

Yeah, those DSL extenders are an option. It appears OP knows about them but can't get them locally.

Standard DSL modems certainly can't do a bridge like that out of the box. I'm not sure whether the hardware is fundamentally incompatible. Given that the different VDSL and ADSL profiles stick upstream and downstream all over the place, they can probably transmit and receive on any frequency.

Firmware actually supporting this would be a very very different matter.

However, it appears that small-ish DSLAMs for this sort of application are actually reasonably affordable and available - something like this: https://dsl-warehouse.com/8-port-vdsl-dslam-bundle-with-a-8-pack-of-vdsl2-uplink-5-port-ethernet-80211-wireless-80211bgn-modem-router-kit-p-938.html

lxsw20

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#2964773 8-Sep-2022 19:59

IIRC Draytek DV130s can do it out of the box.

BarTender

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#2964777 8-Sep-2022 20:14

I would get pre fabricated fibre cable and do it properly.

toejam316

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#2964832 8-Sep-2022 20:35

shk292: Could you run a better cable and use Ethernet?

This is certainly your best bet, use the existing cable as a draw wire. Next best option is to use point to point wireless between buildings, or setup a Point to Multi-point setup with a point that can be seen from all sites. VDSL network bridges are expensive, and the cost of installing one pair between each site would certainly dwarf the cost of a properly spun up solution (which given the scope you've provided, it sounds like isn't on the cards).

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

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Sparky123

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#2964929 9-Sep-2022 08:40

Thanks for the info, team. I appreciate the input.

raytaylor

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#2969695 18-Sep-2022 12:14

You can use the Netsys VDSL2 (not 25mbit VDSL) extender such as an NV-202 on one end in CO mode, and then a normal VDSL2 router on the other end in bridge mode.

Its a bit messy but it does work depending upon how good your router is at bridging the VDSL WAN to the LAN side, or if it needs to add its own layer of NAT.

There are at least 30x NV-202 at various suppliers in NZ at the moment. Cost is about $250 each.

Its best if you can just use an NV-202 on each end as its much less complicated to configure - mostly just plug and play.

Personally I love them and think they are wonderful little devices.

Ray Taylor

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raytaylor

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#2969701 18-Sep-2022 12:25

Are the buildings in a chain?

You can run 100mbit ethernet a fair distance over two pairs of Cat3 so if the max distance between two buildings is less than 100m I'd give it a go.

Many older cat3 cables would pass the cat5 spec if re-tested as the performance of the cable is only tested to a spec but can exceed it. I have seen many old telephone and alarm cables pass a cat5 test.

Ray Taylor

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cyril7

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#2969713 18-Sep-2022 13:14

Hi, just to verify Rays comments, I have a 30odd meter run of 049 Chorus leadin here (not defined but probably less than cat3) that I have 100Mb/s ethernet over, never dropped a packet in over 3yrs according to the switches that feed it.

Also at work I have several Zyxel DSLAMs on our private network, typically run them with Proscend 180 VDSL SFPs as clients on RB760's but have also used them with the NV-202, great devices, naturally never had to use them as CO end only CPE.

Cyril

boosacnoodle

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#2969750 18-Sep-2022 15:32

Similarly to cyril7, I used to have a Huawei DSLAM with VDSL line cards set-up in my old house. This could also be an option if you are not permitted to remove or change the cabling. Bear in this this is a relatively complicated set-up.

cyril7

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#2969763 18-Sep-2022 16:08

boosacnoodle:

Similarly to cyril7, I used to have a Huawei DSLAM with VDSL line cards set-up in my old house. This could also be an option if you are not permitted to remove or change the cabling. Bear in this this is a relatively complicated set-up.

Hi the NV-202's will achieve the same thing with minimal hardware excess, minimal setup complication and cost around $500 all up, easy peasy, if 100Mb/s is sufficient then this is a very cost effective option.

Edit: I have not tried the option of setting an NV-202 to CO mode and attached an common garden VDSL router to the other end, I cannot see this not working and if it did would save a bit of $.

Cyril

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2969764 18-Sep-2022 16:19

At one link, that's accurate. If 10 links are required, the DSLAM options start looking more attractive

cyril7

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#2969768 18-Sep-2022 16:50

Hi, ahh yes just re read OP, Cablesdirect (Dynamix) do show the NV-802s for around $2200 which is an 8 port VDSL DSLAM, which simplifies things, but pricey/port

Can not find the current Zyxel agent, used to be Hills, they seem to have left the country, but did find this, which is essentially the same DSLAM I have several of, albeit a bit older.

https://www.endy.com.au/endyV4/prd.php?itemId=1178

Cyril