TP-Link Archer C2 and Spark Blunder...What To Do Next?

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228 posts

Master Geek
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#1770194 25-Apr-2017 14:02

DukeEdwardI:

Do all network switches support VLAN tagging out of the box? Would I need managed or unmanaged? Is putting a switch between the modem and router even a good idea, because I sure as hell don't know. Networking problems suck.

Not all switches support VLAN tagging.

You want a managed switch.

Each of the possible components are:

Router - Allows traffic to flow from one network segment to another. In residential deployments is commonly used to allow devices on the local network to access the ISP's network.
Switch - Allows multiple devices to connect to the same network segment. Switches (ignoring layer three switches that you don't see in residential deployments) cannot move traffic from one network segment to another.
Access Point - Converts 802.11 (wireless) frames into 802.3 (Ethernet) frames and places them into the network segment.

The issue most people face is that they purchase or obtain a router with an integrated wireless system. The location in the house where the router needs to be to physically connect to the ISP's network is very rarely the best place to have the wireless radios. Therefore, I commonly disable the router's integrated wireless system and purchase an access point. That access point has an Ethernet connection back to the router. This gives the best wireless performance.

bagheera

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Ultimate Geek
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#1770195 25-Apr-2017 14:02

richms:

Their terms of sale are in addition to your rights under the CGA, dont let their sales staff bully you into a restock fee or only accepting credit, but credit is fine if you are going to get something else from the store.

it people like you that make buying stuff in nz so expensive - pbtech have done nothing wrong, the product is fine for 50% of the ISP, and if the OP asked question would have got a different router for spark - CGA has nothing to do with his as the OP did not ask question, no misleading info was given and there nothing wrong with the item.

richms

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#1770199 25-Apr-2017 14:06

bagheera:

it people like you that make buying stuff in nz so expensive - pbtech have done nothing wrong, the product is fine for 50% of the ISP, and if the OP asked question would have got a different router for spark - CGA has nothing to do with his as the OP did not ask question, no misleading info was given and there nothing wrong with the item.

Its the people that made the laws that make it expensive. If you can return something with no penelty, then why the hell not do it?

IMO it's TP Links fault for selling a router unsuitable for a majority of connections. Perhaps if they get more returns they will either sort it out or stop selling it so this stops happening.

The OP has had considerable hassle because of this unsuitable product being sold. At least with DSL we had a telepermit system to stop unsuitable things being sold. Not so easy with fiber.

Richard rich.ms

Talkiet

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#1770202 25-Apr-2017 14:07

richms:

bagheera:

it people like you that make buying stuff in nz so expensive - pbtech have done nothing wrong, the product is fine for 50% of the ISP, and if the OP asked question would have got a different router for spark - CGA has nothing to do with his as the OP did not ask question, no misleading info was given and there nothing wrong with the item.

Its the people that made the laws that make it expensive. If you can return something with no penelty, then why the hell not do it?

IMO it's TP Links fault for selling a router unsuitable for a majority of connections. Perhaps if they get more returns they will either sort it out or stop selling it so this stops happening.

The OP has had considerable hassle because of this unsuitable product being sold. At least with DSL we had a telepermit system to stop unsuitable things being sold. Not so easy with fiber.

Sheesh... Service stations sell petrol and diesel... It's up to the purchaser to pick up the right damn pump.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Crowdie

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#1770203 25-Apr-2017 14:08

bagheera:

richms:

Their terms of sale are in addition to your rights under the CGA, dont let their sales staff bully you into a restock fee or only accepting credit, but credit is fine if you are going to get something else from the store.

it people like you that make buying stuff in nz so expensive - pbtech have done nothing wrong, the product is fine for 50% of the ISP, and if the OP asked question would have got a different router for spark - CGA has nothing to do with his as the OP did not ask question, no misleading info was given and there nothing wrong with the item.

I completely agree. This problem really started in the 90s. People wanted the same pricing as the Asian "cash and carry" operations but full support. NZ retailers dropped their margins that adversely affected their staff's pay. Any staff who knew what they were doing left so we are stuck with staff who just don't know anything.

That said, I do enjoy listening to retail staff trying to explain wireless. They just haven't got a clue.

bagheera

544 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 189

#1770204 25-Apr-2017 14:11

Talkiet:

Sheesh... Service stations sell petrol and diesel... It's up to the purchaser to pick up the right damn pump.

Cheers - N

haha i was about going to post the same thing - if i remember right CGA even say you can not return it if you changed your mind - and as OP has change his mind because he did not ask questions or look up what he needs it not the vendor fault - he could have just as easy got a graphic card thinking it what he needs - not PBtech fault for not being mind readers.

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Crowdie

228 posts

Master Geek
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#1770210 25-Apr-2017 14:18

richms:

Its the people that made the laws that make it expensive. If you can return something with no penelty, then why the hell not do it?

IMO it's TP Links fault for selling a router unsuitable for a majority of connections. Perhaps if they get more returns they will either sort it out or stop selling it so this stops happening.

The OP has had considerable hassle because of this unsuitable product being sold. At least with DSL we had a telepermit system to stop unsuitable things being sold. Not so easy with fiber.

Absolute rubbish. The retailer is not in the wrong and has no obligation to replace the router. You are abusing a law designed to protect consumers from being ripped off by retailers.

firefuze

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#1770217 25-Apr-2017 15:00

If OP sends me a DM with their postal address I can send a Spark HG659 at no cost. As new, only used for 1 day for testing.

DukeEdwardI

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1770240 25-Apr-2017 16:18

Wow, I step away for a couple hours and look what happens. I didn't do my research before I went to PB Tech, didn't ask a salesperson for a router that worked with the Spark network and there's nothing wrong with the product. It's 100% my fault (though I'm definitely annoyed with Spark with having such weird requirements for third party routers).

Hence why I was trying to figure out a way to make the new router work, I knew I'd have to pay a restocking fee and at best, I'd only get store credit back not the cash back in my account.

After having a better think about it, buying a switch to do the VLAN tagging just sounds like a headache. I'll take up firefuze on his offer for the free router and test that out. If it works, then I'll return the Archer C2 and deal with the restocking fee or sell it on TradeMe so I get at least some cash back instead of store credit.

Thanks everyone for all your help and patience with my limited networking knowledge.

sbiddle

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#1770255 25-Apr-2017 16:55

DukeEdwardI: Wow, I step away for a couple hours and look what happens. I didn't do my research before I went to PB Tech, didn't ask a salesperson for a router that worked with the Spark network and there's nothing wrong with the product. It's 100% my fault (though I'm definitely annoyed with Spark with having such weird requirements for third party routers).

It's not really a weird requirement. It's a standard for delivery on MEF networks and is used pretty extensively around the world. It's just that some manufacturers chose not to support it on low cost hardware.

When UFB came out every RSP did VLAN tagging. Without VLAN tagging your UFB connection is 100% EIR with absolutely no guaranteed bandwidth. Every UFB plan includes a high priority traffic allowance that can be accessed with 802.1p tagging, and to use 802.1p tagging you need packets encapsulated within a 802.1q VLAN

Within a year after UFB launched some RSP's took the opportunity to start moving to no VLAN (what's called an untagged UNI) so people could use cheaper low cost routers that didn't support VLAN tagging. If you opt for this you headline speeds will still be the same, but you'll have no ability to access the high priority CIR component of your plan. This is important for many people, and in the best practice word it's what things such as VoIP should be run over so they can't be impacted by policing or saturation on main EIR.

Probably 50% of RSP's supplying UFB use VLAN tagging and 50% don't. Some smaller ones will let you choose what you want as there are the pros and cons listed above to be aware of.

hio77

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#1770257 25-Apr-2017 17:02

I must pick at the Queues are long point, I personally do watch these numbers and generally it is quite the opposite (outage times excluded ofcourse)

in terms of speed, the HG659B is a solid device, even as a power user it is rare for it to not preform.

So far i have noticed no real mention of ethernet testing, Please do remember Wireless while being a feature of a modem is a convenience feature.

There is no way a RSP can promise speed over wireless due to environmental factors, device compatibility etc.

There is nothing weird about VLAN10 PPPoE, this is the default setup for Most RSP's over fibre.

Sure there are a few out there that do DHCP VLAN 10 or untagged, but this is far less common.

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DukeEdwardI

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1770289 25-Apr-2017 18:03

Well, thanks for the history lesson of UFB and VLAN tagging. I didn't understand a word of it, but it's appreciated. I guess it's been a while since I've had to do any router shopping. The last router I bought was a Linksys WRT54G2 probably in 2009 or so when I was still living in the States and none of the ISPs I was with ever made me mess with PPPoE or VLAN tagging, just simple Dynamic IP stuff. That's another mistake on my part for assuming an ISP 8000 miles from home and 8 years later would be just as easy.

Anyway, I dug out an ethernet cable, did the careful dance with it to get it across the house to the router, did a SpeedTest and whaddya know, full download speed. Guess the bridging only affects the WiFi, because I was definitely getting full download speed before (again only on occasion when I downloaded from Origin/Uplay).

In conclusion, the lesson learned here is: don't be arrogant and make assumptions.

hio77

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#1770293 25-Apr-2017 18:28

DukeEdwardI:

Anyway, I dug out an ethernet cable, did the careful dance with it to get it across the house to the router, did a SpeedTest and whaddya know, full download speed. Guess the bridging only affects the WiFi, because I was definitely getting full download speed before (again only on occasion when I downloaded from Origin/Uplay).

As suspected, seems like wifi issues rather than a speed issue :)

Now that you are at that conclusion, you can ofcourse look at options..

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mattyb

254 posts

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#1771044 27-Apr-2017 08:21

If the freebie HG659 still doesn't work well for you I've got a Mikrotik RouterBoard RB951G-2HnD for sale for $90. DM me if you want it. Gigabit LAN and MUCH better wifi performance than the HG659 in my (admittedly limited) experience - high power signal. Been working recently on Spark Fibre too. Check here on Pricespy: https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=1800997

Kiwifruta

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#1821576 12-Jul-2017 23:57

DukeEdwardI:
Well, thanks for the history lesson of UFB and VLAN tagging. I didn't understand a word of it, but it's appreciated. I guess it's been a while since I've had to do any router shopping. The last router I bought was a Linksys WRT54G2 probably in 2009 or so when I was still living in the States and none of the ISPs I was with ever made me mess with PPPoE or VLAN tagging, just simple Dynamic IP stuff. That's another mistake on my part for assuming an ISP 8000 miles from home and 8 years later would be just as easy.

Anyway, I dug out an ethernet cable, did the careful dance with it to get it across the house to the router, did a SpeedTest and whaddya know, full download speed. Guess the bridging only affects the WiFi, because I was definitely getting full download speed before (again only on occasion when I downloaded from Origin/Uplay).

In conclusion, the lesson learned here is: don't be arrogant and make assumptions.

If you go to the Spark website and update the Huawei HG659b to the latest firmware, the WiFi issues go away. I did it for a mate a couple of months ago and his WiFi has been good ever since.

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