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Topic # 100894 20-Apr-2012 14:01
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I know this subject has been flogged to death, but most of the previous threads I've found seem to deal with going for a full rewire of the house, whereas I'm looking to do something a wee bit simpler and so am looking for recommendations\advice:

Basically I want to switch to gigE and while I'm doing it run cat5e cables to 3\4 points in my house. 1 into living room for HTPC\xbox (possibly 2 since they are separate), 1 for a computer in study and 1 to a computer in upstairs master bedroom. 

I don't really want to put too many holes in the walls\gib or regib anything, it's double story so cables can't really go in the roof and no under floor space - so I'm looking at running the cables externally - the design of the house (lower level is brick facade and up level is wooden panelling) means there is a convenient overhang to run cables beneath on the outside - i.e. along the bottom of the upper level. This has already been done for alarm and satellite dish cable and looks ok from the outside.

At the same time I wonder if it's worth getting a master filter installed and moving my modem\router to a small cupboard under the stairs. I think this is closest to where the phone cable comes into the house. The "mushroom" is just outside our fence on the road and on the corner of the house closest to the mushroom it looks like there's a phone line coming up out of the ground straight through the wall into the house; I haven't found an ETP box of any kind and suspect it may go straight from there to the first phone jack point, is that a possibility?

I would probably just get a cheap gigE switch and put it under the stairs along with modem if I can move it there with the master filter install. Then have the 3\4 cables discussed plugged straight into that and not bother with flush boxes or anything like that - just straight to RJ45 connectors and plugged directly into the switch\computers discussed above.

So now I guess the question is, any holes or issues with this plan?  And what will I need? My initial list:

1) I think around 150 metres of cat5e cable
2) RJ45 connectors
3) RJ45 crimping tool
4) TL-SG1005D switch

And questions:

1) Does the cat5e cabling need to be the outdoor grade stuff? The overhang where I plan to put it is partially sheltered from the elements. How fast does the normal cabling degrade?
2) Is it likely that the house has no ETP box? It was built in the early eighties I believe, and I suspect hasn't been rewired since.
3) Will my thomson TG585v7 be alright for this setup or should I look at replacing it as well?
4) Anything I've missed or should do differently? :)

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259 posts

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Technical Solutions Aust

  Reply # 612411 20-Apr-2012 14:37
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Don't have a lot of time, but to answer you quickly:

I think for GigE you should be considering Cat6
You will most definitely need an outdoor grade of cable - either called outdoor / underground or flooded (more or less the same thing)

ETP boxes weren't at every house (mine is a 1982 house and the external cable terminates at an old jack point inside the garage) Look for a thicker black cable inside jack points, possibly with gel like goop inside it (flooded) as your lead in cable.

Only had a little experience with thompson modems (possibly not that model) and it ended up in the bin.

Only other question I have is how to you plan on securing the cables? (hint: a staple gun is playing with fire)

Cheers,



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  Reply # 612505 20-Apr-2012 17:01
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For the external cables, is this about right:
http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C5EEXT-SOL-BK.aspx

or the second one on here:
http://www.cablesdirect.co.nz/catalog/entry?entry=471&page_number=1

What advantages would cat6 have over cat5e? I was under the impression that for your average home user cat5e should be fine.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 612514 20-Apr-2012 17:16
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Those are fine in terms of exterior cable, but I recommend Cat6 because you are wanting to use gigabit ethernet...... and cat6 is the standard for that..... anyhow, there should be very little (if any) difference in price between cat5 and cat6, so why not?

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  Reply # 612537 20-Apr-2012 17:53
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You don't need underground cable if they are out of the weather. 'External' cable is fine. We use this stuff from dynamix that just has a slightly heavier sheath. However, we don't normally expose cables unless they are on a drop lead or something like that. And never get gel filled stuff. You will hate yourself as soon as you remove the sheath.
Cat5e will run GigE fine. But Cat6 has superior bandwidth capabilities if you want to distribute hdmi over cat6 or other things like that.

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  Reply # 612601 20-Apr-2012 20:46
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Evilg: Those are fine in terms of exterior cable, but I recommend Cat6 because you are wanting to use gigabit ethernet...... and cat6 is the standard for that..... anyhow, there should be very little (if any) difference in price between cat5 and cat6, so why not?


gig works fine on cat5e cable. but id still recommend cat6 fr new installs. Ditch the tompson and get a tp-link


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Technical Solutions Aust

  Reply # 613465 23-Apr-2012 08:38
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shrub:
Evilg: Those are fine in terms of exterior cable, but I recommend Cat6 because you are wanting to use gigabit ethernet...... and cat6 is the standard for that..... anyhow, there should be very little (if any) difference in price between cat5 and cat6, so why not?


gig works fine on cat5e cable. but id still recommend cat6 fr new installs. Ditch the tompson and get a tp-link



I never said it didn't work on cat5e - I merely pointed out that there is very little difference in price between the two and that standards dictate cat6, so why wouldn't you? 

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  Reply # 613466 23-Apr-2012 08:40
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chevrolux: You don't need underground cable if they are out of the weather. 'External' cable is fine. We use this stuff from dynamix that just has a slightly heavier sheath. However, we don't normally expose cables unless they are on a drop lead or something like that. And never get gel filled stuff. You will hate yourself as soon as you remove the sheath.
Cat5e will run GigE fine. But Cat6 has superior bandwidth capabilities if you want to distribute hdmi over cat6 or other things like that.


I take it you have never seen an "external" cable fail owing to water ingress?

This installation will be out in the weather... and really "hating" yourself because there is a gel in the sheath is a little bit extreme.... you can wash your hands afterwards.



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  Reply # 613643 23-Apr-2012 13:36
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@Evilg: are you saying Gel filled is a must have in your opinion? I don't think either of the original links I posted are gel. In fact the store I contacted say dynamix don't do a gel cat6, and it looks like the gel filled cat5e is only sold in 500M rolls - obviously a lot more than I need.

If I just look on http://www.computerstore.co.nz it works at as follows:

Cat5E Gel - $0.81 per metre (http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C5E-SOL%20GEL.aspx)
Cat6 Ext - $0.76 per m (http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C6EXT-SOL%20R%20BK.aspx)
Cat5E Ext - $0.56 per m (http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C5EEXT-SOL-BK.aspx)

so with those price differences the Cat5E outdoor (last one) is looking pretty good...

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  Reply # 613650 23-Apr-2012 13:42
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sidefx: @Evilg: are you saying Gel filled is a must have in your opinion? I don't think either of the original links I posted are gel. In fact the store I contacted say dynamix don't do a gel cat6, and it looks like the gel filled cat5e is only sold in 500M rolls - obviously a lot more than I need.

If I just look on http://www.computerstore.co.nz it works at as follows:

Cat5E Gel - $0.81 per metre (http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C5E-SOL%20GEL.aspx)
Cat6 Ext - $0.76 per m (http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C6EXT-SOL%20R%20BK.aspx)
Cat5E Ext - $0.56 per m (http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-C5EEXT-SOL-BK.aspx)

so with those price differences the Cat5E outdoor (last one) is looking pretty good...


I guess what I am saying is that I have seen external non-gel filled cables go down in wet conditions. Your mileage may vary, but since I work on mission critical applications, I only use the best.

And ultimately this is just my opinion :)

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  Reply # 613839 23-Apr-2012 18:02
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Evilg:
chevrolux: You don't need underground cable if they are out of the weather. 'External' cable is fine. We use this stuff from dynamix that just has a slightly heavier sheath. However, we don't normally expose cables unless they are on a drop lead or something like that. And never get gel filled stuff. You will hate yourself as soon as you remove the sheath.
Cat5e will run GigE fine. But Cat6 has superior bandwidth capabilities if you want to distribute hdmi over cat6 or other things like that.


I take it you have never seen an "external" cable fail owing to water ingress?

This installation will be out in the weather... and really "hating" yourself because there is a gel in the sheath is a little bit extreme.... you can wash your hands afterwards.


Seen plenty of cables go down due to water. But it is only when they are exposed, or some noddy has put them underground. If a cable is run under the eaves of a house it isn't in the weather and will perform fine. Obviously for a mission critical you would use underground gel-filled cables or double sheathed cable. In the home situation you don't want to have to clean gel off all the cables you run. it is just a pain and makes the experience stink for someone who doesn't deal with it on a daily basis. I myself deal with gel and a almost daily basis so it doesn't worry me too much. But if i was a home handy man it would p*** me off something major get that stuff every where -especially the silicone gel they use in data cable. Grease in 25/50/100 pair cables is alot easier to deal with lol.

My recommendation would be external Cat6.

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  Reply # 613964 23-Apr-2012 21:35
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One very important thing to keep in mind is power earthing.

If you're running cable out to a garage or a sleepout etc check the power incase it is earthed to a different point to where your mains / inside power that is powering your switch / modem etc is located.

This can have some adverse effects from packet loss to in some rare cases I've heard of equipment failing.

I've got a 50m fiber lead running out to my garage to be on the safe side with media converters on each end.
Some people say it's over the top but I'd rather play it safe.

Another good solution is ethernet over power adaptors. ( Also called powerline )

My 2c



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  Reply # 622638 10-May-2012 07:52
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Evilg:
ETP boxes weren't at every house (mine is a 1982 house and the external cable terminates at an old jack point inside the garage) Look for a thicker black cable inside jack points, possibly with gel like goop inside it (flooded) as your lead in cable.


Looks like this is almost exactly what I have. At the corner of the house a black cable pops up out of the ground and straight through the wall. The same cable appears to be wired into the main jack point and yes looks flooded.

I assume if I can find where this cable runs in the wall nearest that corner of the house (which also happens to be in a cupboard under the stairs) a master filter could be wired in right there, and then I could move modem there too?  This would be a lot more convenient than where it currently is.  

I would guess from the road to the corner of the house is around 10 metres, then from there to the first jack point is around another 10 metres...  just curious but is it like to make much difference to sync speed wiring the master filter in that much closer to the road?

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  Reply # 622673 10-May-2012 09:00
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sidefx:
Evilg:
ETP boxes weren't at every house (mine is a 1982 house and the external cable terminates at an old jack point inside the garage) Look for a thicker black cable inside jack points, possibly with gel like goop inside it (flooded) as your lead in cable.


Looks like this is almost exactly what I have. At the corner of the house a black cable pops up out of the ground and straight through the wall. The same cable appears to be wired into the main jack point and yes looks flooded.

I assume if I can find where this cable runs in the wall nearest that corner of the house (which also happens to be in a cupboard under the stairs) a master filter could be wired in right there, and then I could move modem there too?  This would be a lot more convenient than where it currently is.  

I would guess from the road to the corner of the house is around 10 metres, then from there to the first jack point is around another 10 metres...  just curious but is it like to make much difference to sync speed wiring the master filter in that much closer to the road?


If all the cabling is good, 10 meters is not going to make a massive difference. However if I was installing a master filter, I would install it as close to the incoming line as possible, with the modem as close to it as possible, and LAN out from there... but that is a best case scenario.

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  Reply # 622675 10-May-2012 09:08
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Evilg:  if I was installing a master filter, I would install it as close to the incoming line as possible, with the modem as close to it as possible, and LAN out from there... but that is a best case scenario.
  +1



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  Reply # 622728 10-May-2012 10:21
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Thanks chaps, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Modem + gigE router will be more convenient there anyway and as close to the incoming line as possible without being on my front lawn ;-) Thanks again for the advice\info!

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