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259 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 150361 20-Jul-2014 08:26
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I'm at a lost end.

At home, we have our VDSL modem in bridge mode, into a (recently new) TP Link TL-WR841ND Wireless Router.

This then feeds another identical router in my room for closer wifi coverage, DHCP off, router ip different.

I did have different routers but because of this problem ended up replacing both to try fix it. My laptop is connected via wifi to the second router and often maxs out the lan connection to the home server.


Okay so if I am downloading eg. a continuous steam of torrents with decent download speed (3Mbps ish) then after some time, could be 10 mins, could be half an hour or up to an hour max, then my laptop will just die network wise (windows 8.1), the wifi icon will have the warning icon and I can't do anything. Or if I'm, eg large file transfers to the server or trying to backup my laptop the the backup drive on the server, and hour into the initial backup and almost done, network dies.

But it also takes out a lot with it. If I move closer to the other wifi, connect, I can't access my dreambox which is connected to the second router, or the home server. And trying to reconnect to the second wifi cannot get an ip. (isn't talking to the first router at all) and a simple restart of both routers doesn't fix it straight away. Sometimes requires multiple restarts.

They are connected via a cat5e cable solid core cable under the house, but if I remember rightly the problem was there 6months ago at our old house with a different cable between them.

I have run out of ideas :( Is there anyone thats experienced this or just knows whats wrong.
Hope this makes sense
Cheers




If you have to run heating in winter, you don’t own enough computers.


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  Reply # 1092302 20-Jul-2014 08:50
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Any chance of a diagram to show how everything is connected and configured?



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1092351 20-Jul-2014 10:32
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https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/49c8876963370c195fa4e8bb1a631436.jpg
hope this is what you're after. no power atm was a tad challenging ;) everything is connected via lan ports, the only wan port in use is for the vdsl modem, port 1 on the modem to wan n the first tp link.

 

The red is what becomes offline. Had a belkin on the SSID 2 router, and got a new tp link to try fix it.




If you have to run heating in winter, you don’t own enough computers.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1092471 20-Jul-2014 13:50
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That sounds pretty odd.

Perhaps put the Echolife on it's own SSID for the moment.

Is there a second computer you can use for testing?  Perhaps set up a batch file for quick testing that pings each of the network devices in turn from both computers.

When the problem occurs, are other computers affected?  Does turning off your laptop fix the problem for the other computers?




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1092683 20-Jul-2014 21:08
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Dynamic: That sounds pretty odd.

Perhaps put the Echolife on it's own SSID for the moment.

Is there a second computer you can use for testing?  Perhaps set up a batch file for quick testing that pings each of the network devices in turn from both computers.

When the problem occurs, are other computers affected?  Does turning off your laptop fix the problem for the other computers?


The echolife is a new addition due to wifi wanted for my brother in the sleepout, after the tp links were changed (main used to be Dlink, second used to be Belkin). Its on ssid 1 but different channel. and problem existed before it was put into the system.

When the problem occurs, my HTC one no longer can connect to the SSID 2 network its used on, but can connect to SSID 1, but if i ping from my phone (or laptop connected on ssid1) i cant reach the home server via hostname or ip, the dreamboxes ip, or the second router on 192.168.1.250. And the xbox also loses its network connection (connected to the 8 port hub with the dreambox and home theatre system).

Theres not 'really' any other computer I can use, we all have our own laptops in our family and we're all quite protective of our gear. Its just a really weird problem :/




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  Reply # 1092689 20-Jul-2014 21:21
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Stop using the switches in wifi equipment and buy some cheap 8 port gigabit switches that do nothing else. That way you are not at the mercy of their low CPU crashing and taking the switch out with it.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1092693 20-Jul-2014 21:28
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Could be analogue wi-fi interference from cordless phones, microwaves, video senders etc...

Just make sure each AP is on a different channel. If you're using 80211n, it will overlap regardless as they are 40MHz wide and channel 1 will spill over 6 etc... and if channel 11 is 802.11n it'll spill over the other AP on 1 via channel 6 etc...

I only use 802.11g 20MHzfor that reason.

Make sure you're not doubling up on DHCP. You should only have one DHCP server for the lot. It could be a DHCP renew problem if the packets are getting lost while downloading or each server is trying to respond.

Sounds more to me like interference of some sorts or DHCP though.

Are the switches/AP's going nuts with no downloads in action? Could be a broadcast storm or similar locking out a switch port somewhere now and then. I don't like multiple switch type devices, I prefer one switch for that reason and all star wiring.

Cheers,
Gavin.

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  Reply # 1092711 20-Jul-2014 21:41
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Just an after thought.... it might be automatically switching over to the other AP automatically if the SSID and encryption key is the same. If it does, it could be an ARP problem upstream.

I get really annoyed at work when our hand held barcode scanners change AP (same SSID) because sometimes the ARP tables take time to update at the main switch upstream. In this instance, a whole seperate subnet for each AP would be better when DHCP is renegotiated with a whole new IP range that the upstream switch goes looking for quicker.

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  Reply # 1092722 20-Jul-2014 22:14
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You're either "at a loss" or "at a loose end" :-)

Try the torrenting connected to the router by a patch cable.  I suspect it will be fine, and as suggested you're maxing out the CPU or buffers in the routers.  If so change, your torrent client settings to a low transfer rate and bump it up every day or so until you find where the tipping point is.

Or just do your torrenting wired.

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  Reply # 1092892 21-Jul-2014 11:14
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are you using, for example, port 4 + uplink port on a hub/switch/router at the same time?  sometime a switch will have two physical ports that are 'shared' and traffic arriving at the port-4 might take down the rest of the network from the 'uplink' port.   hope that makes sense...




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1093171 21-Jul-2014 17:09
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Thanks for all you've said guys.

There is definitely no double up of DHCP. And it can't be switching to the other AP, i am connecting to SSID2 and i dont have SSID1 saved on my laptop.

Maxing out the CPU's and buffers... would that make a difference between wireless and cabled?

As suggested, would introducing separate switches make a difference though? wouldn't the wireless still crash and not really solve my prob?

And lastly @Regs, yeah it makes sense, but no chance :)




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  Reply # 1093175 21-Jul-2014 17:16
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You are effectively extending the switch in the 1st TP Link link to the switch in the 2nd TP Link to the 8 port hub - so you might simply be overloading the switch port in the 1st TP Link.

If that 8 port hub is actually a hub rather than a switch you probably want to replace that with a switch and see if that fixes it. Something like the TP-Link TL-SG1008D is good bang for buck.

If that doesn't fix it I'd be tempted to try another TL-SG1008D after the 1st TP Link and before the rest of the network.




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  Reply # 1093176 21-Jul-2014 17:18
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I'm wondering if some sort of network loop is being created.  If you connect 2 network cables between the same 2 network switches (or both ends of one cable into the same network switch) a network will generally grind to a halt.




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“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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  Reply # 1093181 21-Jul-2014 17:28
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Dynamic: I'm wondering if some sort of network loop is being created.  If you connect 2 network cables between the same 2 network switches (or both ends of one cable into the same network switch) a network will generally grind to a halt.


Doesn't look like it from his diagram though, the fact he's using those extra routers as AP's with DHCP off connected via LAN shows he's relatively tech savy wink

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  Reply # 1093306 21-Jul-2014 21:28
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funnyfela:
Okay so if I am downloading eg. a continuous steam of torrents with decent download speed (3Mbps ish) then after some time, could be 10 mins, could be half an hour or up to an hour max, then my laptop will just die network wise (windows 8.1), the wifi icon will have the warning icon and I can't do anything. Or if I'm, eg large file transfers to the server or trying to backup my laptop the the backup drive on the server, and hour into the initial backup and almost done, network dies.


I missed the "torrents" in the initial quick skim.  torrents do open a LOT of TCP connections that can overwhelm some cheap (and some more expensive) router/switches.  First thing to try would be to put a hard limit on the number of connections your torrent clients will open.

Sometimes using advanced router features such as uPNP and DNS-forwarding can cause you issues too.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1093341 21-Jul-2014 22:04
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funnyfela:

Maxing out the CPU's and buffers... would that make a difference between wireless and cabled?



Wireless does seem to require more CPU.

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