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networkn

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#154475 29-Oct-2014 12:43
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Hi There!

I have got an invoice from a cabling company who for some reason will not return my calls or emails, and they have invoiced us for : 

9 x 3M CAT 6 UTP WHITE TYPE 110 Punch Down Jack @ $70.20 each. 

It was in relation to a 6 Outlet CAT6 Jack they installed and another 3 point on the other side of the room. Total bill $1650. Total distance between points and patch panel is 20M for the 6 Outlet and about 10m for the triple. Hollow ceiling, relatively straight forward.

I think these are equivalent of items I can get from CDLNZ (non 3M branded) for $4 each. 

Does something seem off?


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Dynamic
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  #1164267 29-Oct-2014 13:16
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How does 10 for $60 sound?  http://voipcall.co.nz/product/3m-volition-cat-6-110-type-45-jacks-white-10-jacks-per-bag/  

Are they doing something weird like billing a generic rate per outlet for the jacks/faceplates/etc wall-mounted hardware and just have a really rubbish description for this on the invoice?  You don't mention faceplate pricing or similar.

This datasheet shows some 3M part numbers that my google-fu won't easily turn into prices.




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networkn

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  #1164269 29-Oct-2014 13:19
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Dynamic: How does 10 for $60 sound?  http://voipcall.co.nz/product/3m-volition-cat-6-110-type-45-jacks-white-10-jacks-per-bag/  

Are they doing something weird like billing a generic rate per outlet for the jacks/faceplates/etc wall-mounted hardware and just have a really rubbish description for this on the invoice?  You don't mention faceplate pricing or similar.

This datasheet shows some 3M part numbers that my google-fu won't easily turn into prices.


Yah I had trouble with finding prices on google too. 

I think they have a decimal place in the wrong place. 

In terms of labour, what would you consider reasonable for 2 people to take in terms of time for installing a jack with 6 outlets and another with 3 if access to run cable was freely available (ceiling tiles are removable)?


 
 
 
 


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  #1164307 29-Oct-2014 13:39
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networkn: In terms of labour, what would you consider reasonable for 2 people to take in terms of time for installing a jack with 6 outlets and another with 3 if access to run cable was freely available (ceiling tiles are removable)?

This is of course a lot more subjective and I have not seen a professional cabling bill in a very long time (doing little/easy jobs ourselves and referring clients to contractors for more complex jobs).  I would think 4-6 hours for 2 professional and experienced people to do 9 outlets (I assume with an existing patch panel at the other end), but working with that cluster of 6 might have been a bit of a mission.




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  #1164308 29-Oct-2014 13:42
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Are they having to run the cables down the walls? as that can take time to drill down a wall. Terminating 9 cables ate both ends and testing them would be an hour +.

You would be surprised how long it can take to run and terminate cables. Also if they are running them in the ceiling they should be suspended on catenary wire.

I think its a case of easier said than done.

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  #1164309 29-Oct-2014 13:43
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Dynamic:
networkn: In terms of labour, what would you consider reasonable for 2 people to take in terms of time for installing a jack with 6 outlets and another with 3 if access to run cable was freely available (ceiling tiles are removable)?

This is of course a lot more subjective and I have not seen a professional cabling bill in a very long time (doing little/easy jobs ourselves and referring clients to contractors for more complex jobs).  I would think 4-6 hours for 2 professional and experienced people to do 9 outlets (I assume with an existing patch panel at the other end), but working with that cluster of 6 might have been a bit of a mission.


4-6 Hours for 2 people or EACH being a total of 8-12 hours?


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  #1164316 29-Oct-2014 13:56
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networkn: 4-6 Hours for 2 people or EACH being a total of 8-12 hours?

8-12 hours of total chargeable labour, so 2 people should be in and out in a bit over half a day.

But I am out of touch with cabling pricing and of course the intricacies of that site.




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  #1164383 29-Oct-2014 15:10
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ask for a more detailed inv. im sure theyll be in touch if you dont pay the original

 
 
 
 


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  #1164432 29-Oct-2014 15:43
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That doesn't seem far out of whack for the kind of install you're talking about.  Many years ago when I was involved with the kind of stuff the rule of thumb was $80-$120 per run and termination both ends.

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  #1164557 29-Oct-2014 18:50
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Even if ceiling space is good getting down a wall may be a different story. If the client was happy to trunk it then no worries, but they may have drilled down or utilised existing trunking. Many people think because trunking is already there it will be easy - 9 times out of 10 it is much much harder. Especially when you are putting six cables in one position - that needs a decent sized hole.

As said above, I think 4-6 hours for 2 guys would be reasonable. Rates will vary anywhere from $65/hour upwards I would say.

As for $70 per 3M jack, that is definetely a mistake. A PDL RJ45 module with keystone adapter is around $15 wholesale. 3M is much cheaper than that.

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  #1167303 3-Nov-2014 09:20
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3M are good quality but sounds like they are charging for is including labour for termination & testing? The total price not too bad assuming they did the job properly. Ceilings can be pretty awkward to work in if you want outlets near the edge of the ceiling where theres not much space! Remember each outlet also has to be terminated at the patch panel end of the cable.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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