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Toddy47

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#222578 18-Aug-2017 17:59
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Hi guys,

 

I've got to clean up some wiring at work, one being a Frankenstein of a connection which has seen many PBX changes and must have a dozen open circuit wires, etc.

 

I removed the blue and blue/white from the block and replaced with my own connected to a modem, which didn't work. I also tried with the other pair which is terminated: orange orange/white which didn't work either. There is so many joiners, terminations/crimps throughout the whole system I'm not sure if my understanding of how this block works is wrong, or if I've completely identified the wrong cable.

 

Click to see full size

 

I've put a square of one pair I tested:

 

Click to see full size

 

As far as I can tell this isn't a 66 or 110 block, any ideas?


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DarthKermit
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  #1848670 18-Aug-2017 18:10
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Pretty sure that Noah used one of those on his ark.


Toddy47

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  #1848671 18-Aug-2017 18:13
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Sure looks like a monkey wired it.

 
 
 
 


chevrolux
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  #1848681 18-Aug-2017 18:29
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What are you actually trying to achieve? Wire a jackpoint for your DSL where that frame is?
It is an AMP frame and even if you wanted to, I'm not sure you can even buy the punch down tool for them anymore (a few years ago they were already $150+).
The best way to work with those these days is pull the feeder pair off the top of the block and just scotch lock whatever you want to connect on to it.

Stu

Stu
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  #1848682 18-Aug-2017 18:32
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Age has removed the details from my memory. Cannot recall what it's called. Pretty sure I still have the tool here for it, though. Somewhere!




Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

 

Click to see full size Click to see full size


Toddy47

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  #1848684 18-Aug-2017 18:43
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chevrolux: What are you actually trying to achieve? Wire a jackpoint for your DSL where that frame is?
It is an AMP frame and even if you wanted to, I'm not sure you can even buy the punch down tool for them anymore (a few years ago they were already $150+).
The best way to work with those these days is pull the feeder pair off the top of the block and just scotch lock whatever you want to connect on to it.

 

 

 

More or less trying to move DSL jackpoint to the server room, the current run has at least half a dozen pointless splices and is about 50 meters longer than it should be.

 

As for the punchdown tool, I used a 110 and it seemed to work, I only need to do half a dozen punches so I don't see why even if I use a Flathead it wouldn't work?

 

I think I will end up taking the feeder off puchdown into another block, but I wanted to make sure my understanding of which is feeding it is correct. 

 

 

 

 

 

So there are 4 blocks horizontally, and each takes 4 wires. My understanding is each block is separated from each other, but the 4 wires that are connected to each block are connected to each other. Is that correct?


toejam316
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  #1848687 18-Aug-2017 18:57
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Toddy47:

 

chevrolux: What are you actually trying to achieve? Wire a jackpoint for your DSL where that frame is?
It is an AMP frame and even if you wanted to, I'm not sure you can even buy the punch down tool for them anymore (a few years ago they were already $150+).
The best way to work with those these days is pull the feeder pair off the top of the block and just scotch lock whatever you want to connect on to it.

 

 

 

More or less trying to move DSL jackpoint to the server room, the current run has at least half a dozen pointless splices and is about 50 meters longer than it should be.

 

As for the punchdown tool, I used a 110 and it seemed to work, I only need to do half a dozen punches so I don't see why even if I use a Flathead it wouldn't work?

 

I think I will end up taking the feeder off puchdown into another block, but I wanted to make sure my understanding of which is feeding it is correct. 

 

 

 

 

 

So there are 4 blocks horizontally, and each takes 4 wires. My understanding is each block is separated from each other, but the 4 wires that are connected to each block are connected to each other. Is that correct?

 

 

Pretty much, yeah. The tag on the side closest indicates the terminal pair number for the box, with (IIRC) A/Tip on the left and B/Ring on the right.

 

Like others have said - the ACTUAL tool for it is long gone - stripping a wire and pushing it in with a flat head or 110 or something works but isn't what I'd recommend if you're going to play with it often - much better to look into getting it reterminated onto 3 Krone/110 blocks.





Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


Aredwood
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  #1848773 19-Aug-2017 00:39

Does your DSL provider put DC power down the line? Check at the current jackpoint. If so, then it would be easy to check at that AMP frame to see which pairs are active lines. There doesn't seem to be that many outgoing pairs, so once the active ones are identified. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out which one is your line.

 

[edited to add]

 

Im assuming that that frame only supplies phone services to your office. It would be best to get someone in if it also feeds other tenancies, so you don't end up accidently cutting off someone else's phone service.






 
 
 
 


Toddy47

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  #1848820 19-Aug-2017 11:02
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Aredwood:

 

Does your DSL provider put DC power down the line? Check at the current jackpoint. If so, then it would be easy to check at that AMP frame to see which pairs are active lines. There doesn't seem to be that many outgoing pairs, so once the active ones are identified. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out which one is your line.

 

[edited to add]

 

Im assuming that that frame only supplies phone services to your office. It would be best to get someone in if it also feeds other tenancies, so you don't end up accidently cutting off someone else's phone service.

 

 

 

 

I thought I had already traced the line, and re-terminated in it's place a new socket which didn't work. I have since discovered the cat5 cable that I traced (circled yellow) is also spliced to a cat3 cable which is also terminated into the frame (I circled black gel filled connector red). I can only assume now one of the other 2 pairs on the cat5 cable carry the signal so when I go back I'll see where they are terminated.

 

The whole is very awkward to work with as it's on a wall behind a machine so there is like 15cm of working space.

 

I'll try your advice and see if I can get a voltage reading, at the time I was quick rushed as I only had a short timeframe where I could access it and take the DSL down.

 

The frame feeds only our building, so I'll only affect our services.

 

 

 

Click to see full size


toejam316
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  #1848822 19-Aug-2017 11:14
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Very unlikely you'll get voltage off a line unless it has POTS on it. Also, pairs 26 through 30 are not terminated, as it's a 25 pair terminal, so if it was one of those pairs, they would only be usable for joining pairs.




Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


Bartanda
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  #1848883 19-Aug-2017 16:20
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The correct termination tool looks like this:

 

 

We used to call them "pencil tools" and they were very expensive as has already been stated.  If you really want one you may be able to get one from Rocpac though no price is shown.

 

Might actually be better to re-terminate onto Krone.  Especially if you'll be in it often.  These boxes where cheap and a lot of the 10 pair versions were (are still?) installed as demarcation points by Telecom.  But they were a bitch... The tool is expensive and at about the size of a pencil easy to lose.  It also has a thin metal tongue in the middle that can be easily damaged and break off, and then it won't terminate properly.  Sometimes the terminals short together as they are quite loosely held in place.  Another feature is they would break the copper when terminated but not the insulation.  The wire would look fine and might make a loose connection for a while, maybe long enough for you to leave the site!  

 

 

 

Regards

 

Dave


chevrolux
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  #1849010 19-Aug-2017 23:12
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Yea so figure out what pair feeds your DSL currently (using either a tone generator or by tracing cable). Then just pull the feeder pair off the top of the frame and use gel connector to join to the new cable you run.

And yes a small flathead works but still gives quite a rubbish connection as even a small flathead will spread those pins to far. So again, just removing the feeder from the frame is best. Then if you have no other services on that copper just cut away all the other garbage and get rid of the terminal.
If you do remove the terminal just keep each pair twisted as that old 30-pair cable doesn't have much of a twist in it.

Toddy47

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  #1849894 21-Aug-2017 16:09
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chevrolux: Yea so figure out what pair feeds your DSL currently (using either a tone generator or by tracing cable). Then just pull the feeder pair off the top of the frame and use gel connector to join to the new cable you run.

And yes a small flathead works but still gives quite a rubbish connection as even a small flathead will spread those pins to far. So again, just removing the feeder from the frame is best. Then if you have no other services on that copper just cut away all the other garbage and get rid of the terminal.
If you do remove the terminal just keep each pair twisted as that old 30-pair cable doesn't have much of a twist in it.

 

 

 

I spent some time today on this and retraced the cable to pair 7 and tested okay. I will re terminate onto a Krone block just this pair for now as we have 6 other active copper lines including one for the alarm which I wanted to avoid.

 

For those interested, the gray cabled looped back into the ceiling into another krone block which provided me hours of entertainment as I removed the unused lines.
I would say the new jack removes about 40 metres of excess cable travel.

 

Click to see full size

 

Thanks for your input everyone.


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