HG659b issues when used in conjunction with an Access Point

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steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#222617 20-Aug-2017 21:14

I have a Spark supplied HG659b that works perfectly on Ethernet and Wifi (both 2.4 and 5).

However when I connect (via a LAN cable) an Access Point I get unreliable connection to the internet via the Access Point (the AP even says it has no internet connection when this issue occurs) and we get different devices unable to connect via wifi on both devices (ie including the HG659b).

I have tried 3 different Access Point devices and all have the same issue so I have concluded the problem is in the HG659b setup and it something to do with how it is dealing with IP addresses as it all works perfectly fine when both devices are booted up, but then at a later time these various issues arise. It seems to be most noticeable that it occurs after a device has successfully been using the AP, but then when there is no internet traffic via the AP it is as though the HG659b is disconnecting the internet from the AP.

I have no idea why even devices connected to the HG659b via wifi will lose the connection while others will remain connected. It seems like some sort of IP conflict, but I cannot see why it occurs. However as soon as I switch off the AP the devices immediately get connection to the HG659b again.

The three Access Points I have tried are:

WD MY Net N900 Central operating in AP mode (it has an option to select this)

An Old Vodafone Station with DHCP turned off

An old Vodafone HG 556a with HDCP turned off.

In all cases (and for both the HG659b and the AP) the wifi channels are set to fixed and different channels.

Where possible I have tried the AP using a Static IP.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I am missing.

It seems like there must be some setting in the HG659b that I need to change, but I can't think what.

Thanks

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#1849498 20-Aug-2017 21:33

Had somewhat unstable wifi with a similar setup, a router turned into AP.

Have you try to simply bypass the routing function to another wifi/router, essentially using the HG659 as a VDSL modem and/or VoIP connection, all others are "bridged" into the second wifi/router.

There is guide somewhere in geekzone forum thread detailing the above.

hio77

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#1849510 20-Aug-2017 22:02

How many devices are you connecting to your network? I'm wondering if you are hitting an allocation limit.

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Gordy7

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#1849523 20-Aug-2017 22:46

Why are you using 3 access points? Are they on different subnets?

The HG659 should be your only access point (on a given subnet) and WiFi adapters or portable devices (Laptops etc) connected to the HG659 by WiFi.

If you have several WiFi access points on the same subnet they will be fighting each other (not sure what the correct term is).

If you don't want to use the HG659 WiFi then turn the WiFi off and use your Lan cable to connect to another (single) WiFi access point.

Maybe there is more to what you are trying to do than I understand.

Gordy

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1849544 21-Aug-2017 00:12

My understanding is that the AP (reconfigured router) and your main router (HG659) need to be on the same subnet. But make sure they have different IP addresses. As 192.168.1.1 is a common router IP address, plug 2 of them together with the same IP and it won't work due to an IP conflict. Im assuming also that you are connecting the ethernet cable to the LAN connection on the AP

AFAIK 192.168.1.1 is the default IP of the HG659. You need to change the internal IP of the router that you are using as an AP to something different. EG - 192.168.1.252 and check that the DHCP range on the HG659 won't allocate any IPs that high.

Also note that the HG659b has a 32 device limit, total wifi and ethernet devices. Just in case the reason for adding another AP was to connect lots of devices.

NB, how did you manage to disable DHCP on the Vodafone Station? When I last researched that, supposedly the only way was to get Vodafone to remote into the device and ask them to disable it.

steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849606 21-Aug-2017 08:20

Gordy7:

Why are you using 3 access points? Are they on different subnets?

.....

Maybe there is more to what you are trying to do than I understand.

Hi I am not using three at the same time. I tried three at different times ie one at a time only to try and isolate the issue to being a fault with the AP or the HG659b

The reason I want an AP is to improve the wifi coverage across the whole house.

Although the wifi on the HG659b has a good range it is not quite good enough to give reliable coverage across the whole house.

steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849608 21-Aug-2017 08:24

hio77:

How many devices are you connecting to your network? I'm wondering if you are hitting an allocation limit.

Approx 15. But never all on at the same time.

Funny thing is any of the devices will connect fine when no AP is connected.

The HG659b Wifi is just strong enough to give sufficient signal strength for a connection in all parts of the house so I know the HG659b is handling the number of device connections.

But I want the AP to improve the signal strength at the back of the house for a more reliable connection experience.

steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849610 21-Aug-2017 08:30

Aredwood:

My understanding is that the AP (reconfigured router) and your main router (HG659) need to be on the same subnet. But make sure they have different IP addresses. As 192.168.1.1 is a common router IP address, plug 2 of them together with the same IP and it won't work due to an IP conflict. Im assuming also that you are connecting the ethernet cable to the LAN connection on the AP

AFAIK 192.168.1.1 is the default IP of the HG659. You need to change the internal IP of the router that you are using as an AP to something different. EG - 192.168.1.252 and check that the DHCP range on the HG659 won't allocate any IPs that high.

Also note that the HG659b has a 32 device limit, total wifi and ethernet devices. Just in case the reason for adding another AP was to connect lots of devices.

NB, how did you manage to disable DHCP on the Vodafone Station? When I last researched that, supposedly the only way was to get Vodafone to remote into the device and ask them to disable it.

I have used different IP addresses. The HG659b is actually a 192.168.1.254 default and at least two of the devices I tried as AP's were 192.168.1.1.defaults.

I even played around with setting IP addresses outside the DHCP table range of the router and also tried setting a Static IP address within the DHCP table range of the router.

Yes the cable is connected to a LAN port, except for the WD My Net N900 Central where the instructions say that when it is set to AP mode the cable should be connected to the WLAN port (although I tried it in an LAN port as well).

Disabling DHCP on the Vodafone Station: I would have to check again, but I was using user name 'advanced' and p/w 'advanced' to get into all settings.

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darylblake

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#1849620 21-Aug-2017 08:54

Its not just 15 devices on the wifi. We had 5 people staying in 1 place, and had a few problems because we had about 3 tv's many smart devices, sonos, multiple phones, including guest mobiles, tablets and PC's, other access points, raspberry pi's, cameras etc. I think the devices starts to cause problems if you have more than about 32 "devices", regardless of what they are.

I had to reboot it regularly because it started doing strange stuff.

My new setup consists of an Edgerouter PoE managing the network and its been outstanding.

The HG659(b) is a good unit for up to maybe 30 devices, but if you have a LOT of devices i would get something dedicated to routing. You may want it to "forget" some old devices you are not gonna plug in again, see if that helps, it helped me.

Also adding more access points sometimes makes the wifi problem worse. Positioning and transmission power play important factors.

1101

3121 posts

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#1849666 21-Aug-2017 09:46

steve2222:

The HG659b Wifi is just strong enough to give sufficient signal strength for a connection in all parts of the house so I know the HG659b is handling the number of device connections.

But I want the AP to improve the signal strength at the back of the house for a more reliable connection experience.

huh ?
so the wifi at the other end of the house both does & doesnt work OK ?

What you need is a AP at the other end of the house, you will need to run a ethernet cable down the house for it.
Or buy a homeplug unit, that sends the internet through the mains to the a device at he other end of the house

You loose signal from every wall & floor. Trying to force it through multiple walls with more devices or higher power isnt he way to go
You may also be running into interfernce issues at the other end of the house.

steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849781 21-Aug-2017 12:57

1101:

steve2222:

The HG659b Wifi is just strong enough to give sufficient signal strength for a connection in all parts of the house so I know the HG659b is handling the number of device connections.

But I want the AP to improve the signal strength at the back of the house for a more reliable connection experience.

huh ?
so the wifi at the other end of the house both does & doesnt work OK ?

What you need is a AP at the other end of the house, you will need to run a ethernet cable down the house for it.
Or buy a homeplug unit, that sends the internet through the mains to the a device at he other end of the house

You loose signal from every wall & floor. Trying to force it through multiple walls with more devices or higher power isnt he way to go
You may also be running into interfernce issues at the other end of the house.

No that comment was to say that the HG659b can handle the number of connections/devices, but it's wifi signal is not strong enough to provide reliable connection at the other end of the house (although it does work at the other end of the house a lot of the time).

So I then install an AP (wired with a LAN cable back to the HG659b). At that point all I have done is increased the device count by 1 (being the AP), but then I get all these connection issues on both devices with loss of internet.

So I am confident is not because of too many devices (15 max, or which 3 are LAN connections)

kiwicam

136 posts

Master Geek

#1849792 21-Aug-2017 13:13

This is a nice curly one... I've got a couple of thoughts which probably won't help but...

Have you tried restarting the HG659 after the AP is connected? Maybe ARP table is causing issues with the old MAC address over the HG659's Wifi still being held when those MAC addresses showing up again over its LAN port?
Just to confirm, you're disabling the WiFi on the HG659 while the AP is connected. Just concerned the same SSID is being advertised from both - also potentially congestion on the airwaves.

Not sure those thoughts will help but you've got me curious. I'll be interested to hear what the final solution is.

1101

3121 posts

Uber Geek

#1849829 21-Aug-2017 13:35

issues : stop using old junk
want good wifi , then you'll need to spend $ if existing setup is no good.

1) replace main router
2) run a cable to the other room
2) by a GOOD modern wifi access point (not some re-used old device) . Setup as an access point, not setup as a router
3) be realistic regarding wifi throughput with multiple devices connecting at once
4) look for wifi interference issues . Some sites simply never have reliable wifi . Turn off any cordless ph's & video senders etc
5) make sure router & AP are on different channels , with different SSID's . Manually connect to the nearest wifi of the 2.
6) be realistic re wifi through the whole house .

honestly , if wifi is unreliable at your house, then you need to rethink what youre doing, start from scratch with better gear.
I have the same issue at my house , wifi is bad at the other end of my small 3 bedroom house . I choose not to spend & just accept it.

sbiddle

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#1849835 21-Aug-2017 14:00

Do either of the Vodafone devices correctly pass through the MAC address of the end wireless device or end up doing a proxy-arp style situation? You should be able to tell from the DHCP leases in the HG659 which I'm pretty sure lists form IP and MAC address.

I never recommend using old hardware in this type of situation. If you want an access point then use an access point - not a re purposed old router. Doing do very often leads to tears.

steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849953 21-Aug-2017 18:16

caminham:

This is a nice curly one... I've got a couple of thoughts which probably won't help but...

Have you tried restarting the HG659 after the AP is connected? Maybe ARP table is causing issues with the old MAC address over the HG659's Wifi still being held when those MAC addresses showing up again over its LAN port?
Just to confirm, you're disabling the WiFi on the HG659 while the AP is connected. Just concerned the same SSID is being advertised from both - also potentially congestion on the airwaves.

Not sure those thoughts will help but you've got me curious. I'll be interested to hear what the final solution is.

1/ Yes. Also when the issues start the first thing we do is re-start the HG659b and then all will be well for a period before issues start again.

2/ No. Wifi is switched on both devices (HG659b and AP), but they are on different channels and the SSID is different.

steve2222

494 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849954 21-Aug-2017 18:22

1101:

issues : stop using old junk
want good wifi , then you'll need to spend $ if existing setup is no good.

1) replace main router
2) run a cable to the other room
2) by a GOOD modern wifi access point (not some re-used old device) . Setup as an access point, not setup as a router
3) be realistic regarding wifi throughput with multiple devices connecting at once
4) look for wifi interference issues . Some sites simply never have reliable wifi . Turn off any cordless ph's & video senders etc
5) make sure router & AP are on different channels , with different SSID's . Manually connect to the nearest wifi of the 2.
6) be realistic re wifi through the whole house .

honestly , if wifi is unreliable at your house, then you need to rethink what youre doing, start from scratch with better gear.
I have the same issue at my house , wifi is bad at the other end of my small 3 bedroom house . I choose not to spend & just accept it.

Point taken re old equipment. I started with the WD My Net N900 Central which does have the ability to be set in AP mode. I only tried the old Vodafone boxes to see if I could isolate the issue to the HG659b or the AP.

I would/can buy a dedicated AP, but if that doesn't work either I get stuck with a new AP and no use for it.

I guess if someone on here confirmed that they use a HG659b successfully with an AP, then I would buy a new one.

There is no wifi interference causing issues as wifi works fine when only using the HG659b with no AP, just that the range is not quite good enough.

Cable is already run to the other room and feeds the AP.

Re your 1/: what do you recommend for a new main router? We are on Fibre 100/20 via Spark. We don't have a landline nor use VOIP.

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