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gigabyter64

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#237563 7-Jun-2018 23:05
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I have just had fibre ultra fast 900/500 installed which is great (slingshot), I was originally on VDSL with a Netgear D7000 V1, so switched this over to WAN only. worked great, was getting 700-800mpbs down approx 400 up. I was under the impression that the router did not determine download speed but the ont did, well my Son wanted my box for his place so decided to give him mine & purchased a Netgear R7000P, well that slowed my download & upload down to a measley 300/200, swapped back to D7000, up it came again. I returned the R7000P & decide to splash out on the netgear D8500 (even though didnt need modem side). This time my speeds were consistent 500/200 which was better but though should be faster. So borrowed my sons genuine slingshot router (with crappy wifi) & back again to 800/400. Why are there so much inconsistency with various models, is there a hidden setting effecting the compatabilty with the ont? Does it have something to do with the way the vlan tagging is setup in each box? Using same speedtest with 5 minutes of each test so no fluctuations there

 

Any ideas appreciated, sick of throwing money at the issue, seems to get worse with more money.

 

 

 

thanks


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hio77
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  #2031778 7-Jun-2018 23:33
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Have seen the Dsl versions preform rather badly..

 

 

 

There is also another issue with many of the Netgear firmwares, where vlantagging disables the hardware offload. thus your dependent on the router CPU allone for PPPoE throughput. 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


insane
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  #2031779 7-Jun-2018 23:48
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Moving 900/500 Mbps of WAN to LAN traffic requires a fair little bit of grunt, something many home routers with their dated chipsets just can't hack. Also as mentioned above some firmware used by vendors don't even use the right drivers to properly enable hardware acceleration/offload.

 

My last router (Linksys E4200) would run at 100% CPU when topping out at ~105Mbps - expensive router for its day.

 


Just google the WAN to LAN performance before buying a router, Google should return a bunch of useful reviews which will help avoid the disappointment

 

 


 
 
 
 


gigabyter64

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  #2031799 8-Jun-2018 06:31
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And yet my Dated D7000 ver 1 dsl model  (1Ghz) performed the best out of all models tried, the router only ver R7000P which is just recently out was the worst in performance. The D8500 runs (1.4Ghz dual core) which makes me think its a issue like you said with off loading & the fact that my old D7000, has more mature firmware. Do you think moving to a router only model with DD-WRT would be better with drivers?

 

cheers


cyril7
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  #2031800 8-Jun-2018 06:41
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Hi, some devices seem to have QOS enabled that causes issues, check if that happens to be the case

 

Cyril


gigabyter64

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  #2031805 8-Jun-2018 06:53
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Thanks "insane" did the google, looks like its do to with "Most of today's routers default to using cut-through forwarding (CTF) aka NAT acceleration" issue is when pppoe is used in these routers, drops them down so most tests online done with no pppoe required & vlan not required gets good results, same routers are not tested with pppoe enable so it's still hit & miss pick. think I may just buy another D7000 ver 1 again as that was the best of the lot.

 

cheers


Jase2985
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  #2031809 8-Jun-2018 07:01
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your ISP/LFC determines your speed profile, then its up to your device whether if it can handle it or not.

 

 

Some can, some cant as you have found out. but it could just be down to a setting which is holding it up.

gigabyter64

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  #2031831 8-Jun-2018 07:27
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Definetly no QOS or anything else set, just set to run as fast as possible on everything, even the slingshot box (aka netcom xdsl box) is just as fast as my old D7000 V1 & I dont think that box is very grunty at all.

 

Thing is I want as fast as possible as I am going to wireless bridge (450mbps) of my network approx 800m away so I can share connection with my son as he's finding things tight with x2 new babies arriving plus easy file sharing etc.


 
 
 
 


sbiddle
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  #2031832 8-Jun-2018 07:27
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Money is not related to performance. Many high priced brand name routers will still not route 1Gbps adequately. If you want the best performance sticking with the RSP supplied device is normally the best option - the HG659b for example will outperform devices many times its price.

gigabyter64

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  #2031833 8-Jun-2018 07:29
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Hi Jase2985, I think you are right, these new routers prob dont have mature enough firmware yet (seems to be the norm these days) maybe I will sit on my D8500 for a while while using the D7000 in the mean time.

 

cheers


freakngeek
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  #2031836 8-Jun-2018 07:36
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R7000P difference over R7000 = added MU-MIMO, probably where CPU is tripping with extra processing (try to turn this off)
D7000 = R7000 with a modem
I assume they all run the same 1Ghz Dual core CPU's
They are all getting on in technology I've had a R7000 for years, done me well, great for VDSL, and Wifi as it won't be bottle necked

 

Time has marched on, broadband has sped up

 

With 950/500Mbps you'd be better off with a proper router and a AP to do the Wifi, where the R7000P would be fine at as long as you don't mind about 400/300Mbps over Wifi
You need something like an Edgerouter 3Lite or 4 with a proper 11ac AP (r7000 came out pre regulations for 11ac and has lower power out)
As example my R7800 can connect to Intel 9260 WLAN adapter at 1.73Gbps, this is fast enough to get real world 1Gbps
Biggest issue with the r7800 is the rubbish Netgear FW, as AP mode is broken you need to go back in FW setup AP then come forward again for example
3rd party FW will connect at 1.7Gpbs but only give 866Mbps performance
R7800 has great range and speed can't fault it there


bignose
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#2031845 8-Jun-2018 07:50
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With 950/500Mbps you'd be better off with a proper router and a AP to do the Wifi, where the R7000P would be fine at as long as you don't mind about 400/300Mbps over Wifi

 

unless you're looking at 4 stream APs and clients (and 4-stream clients aren't easy to find) then in reality about 400-500mbs is about all you'll get out of 5ghz ac (and even then only you'll need to be close to the router/ap). With 4 stream you CAN get closer to 800mbs (done this myself using an ex7300 and a rt-ac86u) but again only over really short distances (in my case 2m and 1 wall )

 

as for routers - if you want something that can route 900/500 but doesn't have the learning curve of setting up an edgerouter or mikrotik, look at the amplifi afi-r - with current firmware it can do mid-800s running pppoe/vlan tagging, and it's super user-friendly (as long as you don't mind all management being app based).

 

other cheap option would be the asus rt-ac58u - using the new quad core qualcomm (same as in the new mikrotik hap-ac2) - lots of speed for a sub $200 device

 

 


freakngeek
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  #2031872 8-Jun-2018 08:56
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Here are my results with R7800 (Stock FW) with an Intel 9260 in laptop, copying files from laptop to server and back
Same room 3m away

 

 

20m and 3 walls away:

 

 

I bought the R7800 off Ebay for just over NZ$100 delivered, the ERL3 was $100 delivered
Cheap top end performance

 

With the ERL3 setting up via Wizard is fine to start with, from there you can tinker to your hearts content


BarTender
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  #2031910 8-Jun-2018 09:35
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sbiddle: Money is not related to performance. Many high priced brand name routers will still not route 1Gbps adequately. If you want the best performance sticking with the RSP supplied device is normally the best option - the HG659b for example will outperform devices many times its price.

 

^^^ This many times over IMHO.

 

If you can test with the HG659b and it works fine and test with any other router and it doesn't give you the speed you want then you know it's the router.

 

If you get poor speeds with both then you know it's your computer / device you are testing with.

 

Only once so far out of hundreds of customer fault issues that were escalated to me while I worked at Spark were proven to be a Configuration issue on the UFB connection. And one time we had an issue where the HG659 wasn't installed correctly (it was lying flat) and was overheating. Every other time the issue was never with the UFB connection or with the HG659b. Much as I hate those routers for their horrible user interface they perform.





and


gigabyter64

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  #2032049 8-Jun-2018 12:25
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Thanks guys for the responses, think I will stick with the netgear D7000 Ver 1 since it was slighty better than the iSP provided router in speed plus better wifi. The wifi is not too important for me as 90% of my gear is hard wired, only mobiles & wifes Laptop on wifi, already have hard wired AP in shed to cover back yard & the wireless bridge i'm about to do to my sons place will be hard wired as well.

 

Again thanks


insane
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  #2032379 8-Jun-2018 22:32
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gigabyter64:

 

Thanks "insane" did the google, looks like its do to with "Most of today's routers default to using cut-through forwarding (CTF) aka NAT acceleration" issue is when pppoe is used in these routers, drops them down so most tests online done with no pppoe required & vlan not required gets good results, same routers are not tested with pppoe enable so it's still hit & miss pick. think I may just buy another D7000 ver 1 again as that was the best of the lot.

 

cheers

 

 

huh that's very interesting, nice find!

 

Yeah so on my old E4200 (plain router, not a modem) I used to run Tomato USB (shibby), there was a small hack I loaded fairly recently-ish into the startup script which was: 'modprobe bcm_nat', which made a tiny improvement but was still limited by the CPU. If one of your routers with more processing power and a broadcom chipset supports that, it could help.

 

Back in the days I used to spend hours setting up QoS etc to allow multiple flatmates to use my internet connection without affecting my gaming at all.. Now I'm just using an Asus AC56U stock :p 

 



The full article on that fast-nat tweak is here:

 

https://digiex.net/threads/tomato-firmware-improve-wan-to-lan-throughput-with-fast-nat-bcm-nat.13942/


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