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Topic # 237903 23-Jun-2018 12:11
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Dear All,

 

I'm thinking about getting a dedicated wifi AP to replace the vodafone modem version as its in a network cupboard so the signal is only ok in the lounge and zero on the deck.

 

I see the Unifi brand is well thought of and as I have an unused run of cat6 cable under the house already connected at one end to the network cabinet, I was wondering whether there are any downsides to placing an AP under the house? 1918 villa almost all wooden.

 

One thought would be the AP is expecting to be attached to the ceiling so is looking for connections under it so would mean I might have to workout how to install it upside down so its looking for signal up through the floor. Alternatively what about place the AP on a wall ?

 

(currently have the pest controllers in for rodents in the roof space)

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

A.


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  Reply # 2042791 23-Jun-2018 12:14
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Signal strength from the position is probably less important than the environment it's going to be in - roof spaces get very hot in summer which can shorten the lifespan of electronics very quickly. Under floor can be damp which leads to corrosion or exposed to animals.


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  Reply # 2042793 23-Jun-2018 12:19
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If you have roofspace then how hard is it to run the cable from said cupboard to a central location in the roof then celing mount the AP?

 

Roofs get hot, so inside roofspace not ideal, under the floor not ideal. 

 

You can wall mount. 

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 2042799 23-Jun-2018 12:45
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I can place in either position really.

 

Under the lounge there is about 8 feet of clear warm dry space as my house is on a slope, so under the house means I can just splice a connector onto one end of a connected cable run and attach to the under side of the floor (could use existing power point already there if needed)

 

Roof space also doable while working around pink bats everywhere and I would have to run new cable into the cupboard via space near chimney but crawl around in 3 feet clearance under the house as the cupboard is accessed from below.

 

So I suppose I have a preference for under the house but want to double check there are no issues suggesting roof space (with heat and pink bats splinters and rats temporarily) is better..

 

Which AP ...


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  Reply # 2042803 23-Jun-2018 13:05
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I have an old uap in my roof space. Thought technically it’s below the insulation in a false roof. Cos it’s was only $50 I’m not too fussed if it does. And means you can’t see it.




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  Reply # 2042820 23-Jun-2018 13:32
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I wouldn't put any electronics under the house purely due to the damp.

Unifi's do just fine in a roof space... little bit more signal attenuation but can understand from an aesthetics point of view why you would put them there.

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  Reply # 2042827 23-Jun-2018 13:46
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chevrolux:

 

Unifi's do just fine in a roof space... little bit more signal attenuation but can understand from an aesthetics point of view why you would put them there.

 

 

When you place an access point with omni-directional antennas into a ceiling space you lose around 60% of high throughput area.  People commonly only measure the signal strength but signal strength is only one determinant of throughput.  When you put an omni-directional antenna in a ceiling you commonly increase the CRC errors and retry rates over distance.  This reduces your throughput over distance irrelevant of the signal strength.  However, if you just want to cover a small area (say a room or two) then you should be OK. 

 

afe66:

 

I see the Unifi brand is well thought of and as I have an unused run of cat6 cable under the house already connected at one end to the network cabinet, I was wondering whether there are any downsides to placing an AP under the house? 1918 villa almost all wooden.

 

 

If you are mounting any access point under your house it will need to be a minimum of IP54 rated (IP67 preferred) to survive our New Zealand winters.  Mounting an indoor rated access point under your house could invalidate the warranty as it is not designed for this deployment type.

 

afe66:

 

Alternatively what about place the AP on a wall?

 

 

The indoor rated access points with internal omni-directional antennas are designed to be ceiling mounted and direct the majority of signal across a standard 2.7m building floor.  If you mount the same access point on a wall (without an "L" bracket or equivalent) the majority of signal will now be directed up and down.  As just about anybody can call themselves and "IT engineer" in New Zealand I commonly see this poor deployment method and it introduces significant coverage and/or performance issues.

 

If you want to wall mount an access point pick a model with an integrated 120 degree horizontal beamwidth antenna.  This will direct signal forward from the access point and with the signal side lobes will direct the majority of signal in a 180 degree horizontal pattern.


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  Reply # 2042830 23-Jun-2018 13:57
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Ubiquiti do do and in wall ap. basically looks like a wall switch.




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  Reply # 2042834 23-Jun-2018 14:10
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davidcole: Ubiquiti do do and in wall ap. basically looks like a wall switch.

 

The Unifi IW antennas are omni-directional so half the signal is being directed into the wall.  I suspect Ubiquiti did this as their target market is the "low price over performance" sector.


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  Reply # 2042840 23-Jun-2018 14:29
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Is the asthentic issue of a Unifi AP on the ceiling really an issue to you?, smoke detectors etc are just as obvious and dont look significantly different.

 

Placing it under the floor means that to reach devices it will need to propogate through clutter (ie furniture and people) placing it on the ceiling or up high on a wall means it sees over the clutter with a better chance of a clean direct line of sight of devices.

 

Cyril


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  Reply # 2042844 23-Jun-2018 14:34
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https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005212927-UniFi-UAP-Antenna-Radiation-Patterns

 

 

 

Here are the radiation patters, while it may be best to mount the right way in practice may not make a lot of difference.

 

I have a AC lite in my roof space, its only been there a few weeks so cant comment on reliability. Auckland, concrete tile roof, batts

 

I have a cut down  fence plank across 2 of the beams in the roof with the AC Lite attached to its ceiling mount facing down. (the right way, so  the same orientation as if it was attached to the ceiling).  I figured at least it would get some ventilation rather than just resting on the top of the ceiling

 

Its above the central light fitting so no insulation in that small area.

 

That way its smack bang in the middle of a room 6x6m .

 

Power is set to low as its just there to give good coverage to that room , have another AC lite that services the rest of the house.

 

Just hope I never loose it from Unifi as its a mission getting to it should I need to manually reset it


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  Reply # 2042894 23-Jun-2018 15:40
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ben28:

 

https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005212927-UniFi-UAP-Antenna-Radiation-Patterns

 

Here are the radiation patters, while it may be best to mount the right way in practice may not make a lot of difference.

 

 

The mounting location and orientation are extremely important.  If they weren't why would they make radiation patterns available to the public? 




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  Reply # 2042895 23-Jun-2018 15:47
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I'd rather not drill into the ceiling from inside the room. Which is why I'm looking at under the floor pointing up or roof space pointing down.

 

The other half wont like the look no matter what design and drilling holes in 100ys old moulded plaster ceilings has potential disaster written all over it..

 

 

 

Enjoying this thread !


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  Reply # 2042903 23-Jun-2018 16:03
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If you want to house an access point in the ceiling cavity an access point with a 120 degree horizontal beamwidth facing down should provide the best performance.


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  Reply # 2042905 23-Jun-2018 16:10
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If you must put it in the ceiling, then ensure its below the insulation line, ie build a cavity for it that is then covered in batts so that it maintains a similar temp to the room temp below, make sure those batts have some air gaps to allow heat out.

 

Alternatively the inwall APs that fit in a data faceplate are another option

 

 

 

Cyril


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  Reply # 2043593 25-Jun-2018 15:15
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I have recently changed to running 2x Unifi AC Lites in the room space. I didn't want to drill and mount them on the ceiling (yes, they don't look too bad - but I would rather have things as clean as possible) although that was the backup plan.

 

I mounted them pointing down, using the mounting brackets into the wooden trusses that make up my roof. One is 3ft and one is 6ft above the insulation.

 

Signal wise I get solid 5ghz AC across the house, which is what I was after - with decent speeds as tested to home server. 2.4ghz for other devices also solid.

 

Temperature as mentioned is the other variable, but I've seen plenty of electronics get plenty warm before. The data sheet lists operating temp up to 70deg C - and I haven't seen that yet in the roof space.


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