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AKT

AKT

308 posts

Ultimate Geek


#260251 17-Nov-2019 20:54
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Can you recommend me a switch please?  We have a 2 storey house and I'm currently cabling up 6a network cable.  The plan is to have my router go to the understaff cupboard and have a switch distribute to downstairs and one cable going upstairs to a second switch to distribute the rooms upstairs.  I don't need PoE at the moment but looking at putting some cameras in and maybe a doorbell which PoE will help for.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Andy


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davidcole
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  #2355385 17-Nov-2019 21:59
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How many connections. How big is your patch panel?


Do you need a 24 port plus a Poe one later?




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AKT

AKT

308 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2355406 18-Nov-2019 00:15
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davidcole: How many connections. How big is your patch panel?


Do you need a 24 port plus a Poe one later?


Currently not huge. 5-6 upstairs and unlikely to go past 10 (15 at a push) and 5 downstairs maybe 10 with cameras. It these are deliberately over estimates.

Thanks

A

 
 
 
 


fe31nz
582 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2355411 18-Nov-2019 01:08
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Having only one Cat6a to a second switch is not the best plan.  It means that the bandwidth available between devices on one switch and devices on the other switch will be limited to only 1 Gibit/s in total.  Between devices that are on the same switch, you get 1 Gibit/s per device, so for 10 devices, each of them can be using 1 Gibit/s at the same time.  This is usually a problem when you want to copy large files between PCs, as that typically is the thing that uses the full 1 Gibit/s bandwidth.  If you want to do that sort of thing between a PC on the first switch and a PC on the second switch, you will kill the bandwidth being used by someone on the second switch to watch Netflix and you will not be popular.  If at all possible, you should use one switch and run Cat6a back to that one switch from all locations.

 

If running the cable like that is a real problem, you can solve this also by using very expensive switches that have 10 Gibit/s (or greater) uplink capability and run a 10 Gibit/s connection between the two switches.  That might need to be a fibre connection (typically SFP+) instead of Cat6a depending on the switch.

 

I recommend the Ubiquiti Edgeswitches.  They are professional level in their features, but not so much in price.  I have an Edgeswitch ES-24 Lite and am very happy with it.  There are larger variants and versions that do POE also, but they are more expensive.  Professional type switches, for example, will do IGMP snooping.  That allows you to have say 4 different locations in the house that are using Spark Sport to watch the same programme, and you will only get one incoming stream to do that, with the IGMP protocol distributing the packets to the devices that are using the stream.  Without IGMP snooping, each device will get a separate stream from the Internet.  My ES-24 can also tell me the bandwidth use in real time on each of its ports, which I find very useful.  As is the ability to name each port, so I do not have to keep separate written documentation of all the connections.


cyril7
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  #2355419 18-Nov-2019 06:57
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Hi Spark sport does not use multicast, so nothing to snoop on.

 

As for Edge switches, they seem fine, but a bit lacking in my view, but easy to configure. 

 

For domestic environment switches, look at the SG250 series Cisco's if you are just after layer2, or maybe SG350 is you are after L3 features, which from the reading of it, does not seem to be the case.

 

As for 10G, if you go down that route I recommend you avoid using it over copper connections, its not a nice protocol and is both power hungry and has latency issues, although likely to not affect domestic settings. Instead run a MM fibre and link switches via 10G optics.

 

Cyril


bignose
126 posts

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  #2355514 18-Nov-2019 09:03
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As for 10G, if you go down that route I recommend you avoid using it over copper connections, its not a nice protocol and is both power hungry and has latency issues, although likely to not affect domestic settings. Instead run a MM fibre and link switches via 10G optics.

 

I can't really seen the 10g copper issues affecting ANY domestic install - and the OP could always go for one of the relatively cheap netgear 'multispeed' switch and run 5g/2.5g for the uplink. Something like the GS110MX would be about right in terms of size/features/cost for home use

 

TBH - unless you've got network resources pushing fairly high i/o loads (say a media dump for a video editting suits) even for medium size installs 10g is overkill - we've got our network storage (6+ servers serving 200tb of disk to about 50 linux workstations) mainly on 1g links, some of the most heavily used machines using a pair of 1g ports lag'd. Sure if we went to 10g the bottleneck would shift from the lan port to the raid controller, but our peak loads just don't justify the cost

 

 

 

 


cyril7
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  #2355553 18-Nov-2019 10:25
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bignose:

 

......snip[

 

TBH - unless you've got network resources pushing fairly high i/o loads (say a media dump for a video editting suits) even for medium size installs 10g is overkill - we've got our network storage (6+ servers serving 200tb of disk to about 50 linux workstations) mainly on 1g links, some of the most heavily used machines using a pair of 1g ports lag'd. Sure if we went to 10g the bottleneck would shift from the lan port to the raid controller, but our peak loads just don't justify the cost

 

 

 

 

Totally agree, I still struggle to see any of my typical SME sized environments get anywhere near 70-80% utilisation of 1G links or general usage, so would expect to see domestic environment loading to be much less.

 

Cyril


AKT

AKT

308 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2355813 18-Nov-2019 15:19
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Hi,

 

 

 

Not going to be heavy use maybe some netflix simultaneously but no heavy file transfers.  I understand that it's not the optimum setup for speed but given I have a 1G connection at the end of it, having 10G through the house is overkill and whether that bottleneck is inside the house or where the internet comes into the house probably doesn't matter too much for our needs, but point taken.  I may run a few extra cables to the understair cupboard from the ONT and put the router there which will improve things (as it means only 1 switch needed) or at some stage have the ONT moved as it's in possibly the worst place they could have put it with regards to distributing internet.  Think I know the answer already but is it worthwhile running a second cat6a cable upstairs whilst the wall is open?

 

As for switches I have Netgear Orbi routers so I may stick with the brand unless they do some PoE switches too - will check out the ones recommended, thanks all for the input so far.

 

 

 

Edit: - what about this for an option? https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWHNGR74515/NETGEAR-ProSAFE-GS724TPv2-24-Port-Gigabit-Smart-Ma

 

 

 

Thanks

 


Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


cyril7
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  #2356902 18-Nov-2019 18:31
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Hi, nothing wrong with Netgear, just a brand I have never used, but often encounted when taking over new customers, not a bad price for 190w POE.

 

Cyril


bignose
126 posts

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  #2357014 18-Nov-2019 22:08
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AKT:

Hi,


Edit: - what about this for an option? https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWH NGR74515/NETGEAR-ProSAFE-GS724TPv2-24-Port-Gigabit-Smart-Ma



So you’re going to have one 24 port switch upstairs and one downstatirs? Either you’ve gor a LOT of wired devices, or you’re massively over-speccing


AKT

AKT

308 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2357024 18-Nov-2019 22:31
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bignose:
AKT:

Hi,


Edit: - what about this for an option? https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SWH NGR74515/NETGEAR-ProSAFE-GS724TPv2-24-Port-Gigabit-Smart-Ma



So you’re going to have one 24 port switch upstairs and one downstatirs? Either you’ve gor a LOT of wired devices, or you’re massively over-speccing



No just going to have the one switch now - after the comments above I decided I could do it with one (see my last post before this one) as it would alleviate some of the bottleneck which had been highlighted to me. So the current plan is ONT>under stair cupboard which will now house my Orbi Router that can distribute downstairs (currently all Wi-fi or powerplug) and router > 6a cable upstairs which will have a switch ultimately but possibly just an Orbi satellite until I get a switch as it will cope with 3/4 additional Ethernet connections for now. I will try to get a few more 6a cables ran before the wall is closed but this may not get done in time.

My issue with overspeccing on switches is they seem to come in either too few or too many which is why I was looking at 24. Netgear also do a 24 with 12 PoE which I think would do and is $200 cheaper than the one I linked. The Cisco ones seem about twice the price unless I have missed something.

Thanks

Andy

bignose
126 posts

Master Geek


  #2357206 19-Nov-2019 12:11
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No just going to have the one switch now - after the comments above I decided I could do it with one (see my last post before this one) as it would alleviate some of the bottleneck which had been highlighted to me. So the current plan is ONT>under stair cupboard which will now house my Orbi Router that can distribute downstairs (currently all Wi-fi or powerplug) and router > 6a cable upstairs which will have a switch ultimately but possibly just an Orbi satellite until I get a switch as it will cope with 3/4 additional Ethernet connections for now. I will try to get a few more 6a cables ran before the wall is closed but this may not get done in time.

 

topologically and in terms of bottlenecks you're changing nothing by moving the router to the cupboard and running a single switch upstairs - still the same 1gb link between switches (it's just now the downstairs 'switch' is the one built into the router). Egress traffic is still bottlenecked by your fibre (so the 1gbs link to the ont is irrelevant)

 

you seem mainly worried about potential (future) POE needs - but at the mo I presume you have zero POE equipment? I'd wait 'til you actually start to need POE, see what flavour you need (still lots of 'dumb' 24v/48v gear - not everything is af) and what the required poe budget actually is, and buy only once you know what you need. In the meantime put in the smallest, cheapest, dumbest (non-blocking) switch you can get for upstairs

 

 


AKT

AKT

308 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2357263 19-Nov-2019 13:41
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bignose:

 

topologically and in terms of bottlenecks you're changing nothing by moving the router to the cupboard and running a single switch upstairs - still the same 1gb link between switches (it's just now the downstairs 'switch' is the one built into the router). Egress traffic is still bottlenecked by your fibre (so the 1gbs link to the ont is irrelevant)

 

 

 

 

You're right, I was just stopping the need for buying 2 switches.  I may run a second cable upstairs for redundancy but ultimately the incoming connection is 1G so that is the bottleneck to the internet.  What you've said about PoE makes sense too.  I currently have no PoE devices but want to get some cameras and a doorbell so the need for PoE is imminent, but I may wait and get PoE later.  I have a spare router knocking about too which I could use as a switch until my plans become firmer.  Still keen on having a central point where I can cable to and distribute from there though.

 

 

 

Thanks for your help

 

 

 

A


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